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Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

Worried about no rear lights visible with the tailgate open?

Land Rover have it sussed............
In the covered slot in the rear door there is a hidden warning triangle. Looks like it’s cheapest Chinese technology but at least there’s something. I’ve backed it up now with an £8 strobe LED rear light from a bicycle that fits into the storage slot and has a USB A charging cable to plug into one of the cars many USB sockets
The warning triangle is in the slot with two clips on the door

Inside it’s in a green carrier

It’s supposed to be set up 100m back from the car..........

Set up, not 100m back, my street isn’t that long!

My little extra strobe light attached to the exterior of the tailgate door handle but you could use its rubber mount and hook to attach it to the triangle (I’ve added a length of about 3cm of Self adhesive HD Velcro tape too for that)

Click image to enlarge

When not needed the light fits neatly inside the mount for the triangle, behind the clip on cover

My night time hazard warning light kit - the two white patches are 2 x 3cm Velcro strips if needed

Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

15th Aug 2020 11:03am

markb110

Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2644

On my 90 TD5 Classic I have a strip of reflective red tape on the inside edge of the door frame so that it is visible at night with the door open.

Love the strobe light idea. Always best to be safe than sorry........especially with all these ‘smart’ motorways popping up everywhere.....

15th Aug 2020 5:03pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17457

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

It's a minor point but remember that a flashing red light is illegal except on a bicycle, although it's hard to believe that even the most obnoxious Policeman would object in an emergency though.

15th Aug 2020 5:59pm

J77

Member Since: 04 Nov 2019
Location: Fife
Posts: 3412

I was thinking about getting something like this from fleabay

15th Aug 2020 6:07pm

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

I looked into the Red retro-tape but there is a problem with it, there isn’t a lot of room unless you stick it over the warning label for rigging the triangle. If you have the spare wheel cover fitted then you could stick the red tape onto that so it is only visible with the door open

Click image to enlarge

The strobe LED also has a fixed red setting Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

15th Aug 2020 6:36pm

VVS210

Member Since: 12 Nov 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 953

The red LED is a cracking idea

Now I could be having a 'senior moment' but I have a vaque recollection that many years ago my first Discovery, a '92 plate 200Tdi 3 door, had a small red light in the edge of the door so that when the tail lights were hidden behind the spare wheel there was still a red light visible in the dark.

Surely with the advance in LED technology it would have been a sensible & easy thing for LR to have put a red light in the edge of the door?!

15th Aug 2020 8:54pm

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

Looking at my photo where the triangle is rigged you can still see the rear fog light below the spare, I suppose that you could switch those on but you woukd also be breaking the law on a clear night.........

15th Aug 2020 9:34pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17457

Not great, is it. I've also just taken a look at The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (as amended) and find the following:

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (as amended) wrote:
Restrictions on the obscuration of certain obligatory lamps and reflectors
19. Every vehicle shall be so constructed that at least part of the apparent surface of any–
(a)front and rear position lamp,
(b)front and rear direction indicator, and
(c)rear retro reflector,
which is required by these Regulations to be fitted to a vehicle is visible when the vehicle is viewed from any point directly in front of or behind the lamp or reflector, as appropriate, when every door, tailgate, boot lid, engine cover, cab or other movable part of the vehicle is in a fixed open position.

So on the face of this it would appear that it isn't legal. Since I can't really imagine that JLR would have obtained EWVTA for and be selling a vehicle that is illegal, I presume that some EEC legislation has countermanded the RVLR 1989.

15th Aug 2020 10:22pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17457

This is from the IVA Tester's manual (this is an extract from the N1 manual, but apart from the Note numbers being different the M1 manual is the same):

The IVA Tester's Manual wrote:
6. When every door, tailgate, boot lid, or other movable part is in the fixed open position (any position in which the component will remain, with or without a fixed stay) each of the
- front and rear position lamps
- front and rear indicators
- rear retro reflectors
must fulfil one of the following conditions:
a. half (50%) of the apparent surface (see Note 9) of the lamp or reflector is visible from directly in front of / behind (as
appropriate) the vehicle, or
b. additional fully visible lamp (s) / reflectors satisfying all requirements for the above lamps / reflectors are activated / visible, or
c. a notice in the vehicle must inform the user that in certain positions of the movable components, other road users should be warned of the presence of the vehicle on the road (e.g. by laying out a warning triangle). (see Note 10)

And Note 10:

Note 10 wrote:
Note 10: This does not apply to rear retro reflectors which must be visible at all times.

15th Aug 2020 11:03pm

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

So how did the car pass homologation/type approval? It has also been accepted by the USA’s Dept of Transportation and we all know how much the US Govt hates anything imported and tries to regulate against anything foreign coming into the States . Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

16th Aug 2020 5:15am

seriesonenut

Member Since: 19 Nov 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 1224

I might be wrong but didn't something similar happen with the discovery 1? Seem to recall the introduction of additional rear lights in the bumper to overcome the same issue? 1984 One-Ten CSW
2010 XS USW (sold)
1957 Series One 88 diesel
1958 Series One 88 4x2

16th Aug 2020 6:25am

Telemarkskier

Member Since: 20 Jul 2020
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 126

6
A vehicle which carries a load or equipment which obscures any obligatory lamp, reflector or rear marking.
Either–
a)
the obligatory lamp, reflector or rear marking shall be transferred to a position on the vehicle, load or equipment where it is not obscured; or
b)
an additional lamp, reflector or rear marking shall be fitted to the vehicle, load or equipment.
All the installation, performance and maintenance requirements relating to obligatory lamps, reflectors or rear markings shall in either case be complied with
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/1796/part/II/made

It certainly looks to be unfit for purpose at present as its illegal. If the spare wheel is classed as a load/equipment then an additional lamp has to be fitted, so at present there is no way round it so far as regulations go. JLR have made what could turn out to be an expensive mistake if someone is wiped out from behind having opened the rear door at night to get out the jack out of the load bay + warning triangle etc. Not good at all!

16th Aug 2020 7:59am

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

So the warning triangle covers them for the rule about an alternative light or reflector then, but not for the period between opening the rear door and setting up the triangle! Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!

16th Aug 2020 8:05am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17457

I would have thought that the old Defender in a configuration with a rear door and door-mounted spare would do the same, so perhaps JLR feels it has grandfather rights.

16th Aug 2020 8:27am

Tim in Scotland

Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

And they never supplied a warning triangle with those ........

16th Aug 2020 8:29am

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