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konamac

Member Since: 08 Sep 2011
Location: Namibia
Posts: 10

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Alpine White

Puma 2.4 Not Cranking or Starting

Hi

My problems manifest much as johnnyd's that were sorted out by Martin some time ago with a few differences. My 2008 2.4 Puma used to have an intermittent "cranking failure" to start, ie it would turn over and almost take and then cut out. This was random and I had taken to keeping the key fob extra close to the coil while starting because it felt like this helped. Worse case scenario after a failed start I would look the car via the fob, waited for the red LED to finish flashing rapidly and then once the steady blinking started, I would press the unlock button on the fob and the car would start.

My new problem is that the car is standing and not cranking at all:

Symptoms:

Vehicle locks and unlocks with the fob.
Instruments binnacle light up as per normal on first ignition switch indent.
Immobiliser LED (red) is functioning
On "Crank" position nothing happens on the starting circuit, no clunk from the solenoid and no cranking over.
When turning to crank the power goes out to my MadMad gauge and other instrumentation and then resets.

I have confirmed the following :

Battery condition is fine, it replaced less than two years ago and I took it out and had it tested and it's reporting healthy voltage and full compliment of "cranking amps" too.
All relays seem to be fine and present, although I haven't removed and replaced them individually to confirm (Nanocom gives no errors relating to the components of the starting system)
Output on the ignition with "crank" terminal (Red connector to RW wire) shows just under 12V while cranking, and 0V when not.

Nanocom reports the following error codes from the IPC:

IPC-Instrument Pack

U3000 Control module - System internal failure - calibration/parameter memory failure
B1A75 Fuel sender 1 circuit - General failure information - general electrical failure
B1A81 Internal trip switch circuit - Algorithm based failure - signal plausibility failure
P1602 Immobilizer/engine control module communication error - Frequency modulation/pulse width modulation failure - no signal
U0401 Invalid data received from engine control module/powertrain control module - Algorithm based failure - event information
U2101 Control module configuration incompatible

Nanocom fails to connect to the Lucas AS10 when I try to interrogate it. However the AS10 seems to be working in terms of other functions?

This seems to point away from problems with the ignition switch, relays or starter motor, although often electrical problems can cause false DTC errors and lead one down one rabbit hole after the other! I just think the fact that I can't access the AS 10 with the Nanocom but that it works points to the communication line to the AS10 through the IPC and not to the actual AS10 itself?

I know there is a trick to bridging out the Immobiliser input and output to the IPC, but before I start tampering with splicing into and bridging fine gauge wires in my harness I wanted to check as to where I should start. I assume its to do with the LGS wire to Terminal 3 of the IPC connector and / or the K wire to Terminal 30?

Would this suggest a failure in the IPC terminal connector pin solders on the PCB? I've seen this described as the primary cause of failures and can be remedied by some skilled disassembly and refreshing of the soldering to the connector pins. On the YouTube video detailing the repair on the similar Ford Fiesta instruments they state that the outer pins are the most vulnerable to solder cracks and pins 3 / 30 are both close to the outsides of the connector according to the diagram for C1040 connector.

I'd really appreciate some help and guidance here, not many options in terms of auto electricians who would have experience of such an intricate failure.

Kind regards

Kirby

16th Nov 2019 8:40am

HardCharger

Member Since: 03 Mar 2013
Location: Manila
Posts: 735

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SW Stornoway Grey

Do your AC blower and radio work? If not, then it is most likely the ignition switch that needs replacing.

Also make sure that the battery clamps are REALLY secured to the posts as sometimes they only seem tight but are actually not. I've take to adding a copper sleeve in between the earth post and clamp to ensure proper contact. For the positive post and clamp, I've used a lead shim as you have to really pound it flat to put it on.

18th Nov 2019 3:03am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17373

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

For the minimal effort it takes, check that the relays under the seat are really tight in their sockets (ie remove and refit them - it should feel as though you are likely to rip the connectors out of the socket when you pull the relay out).

18th Nov 2019 9:57am

konamac

Member Since: 08 Sep 2011
Location: Namibia
Posts: 10

Hi Blackwolf, thanks for the tip. I have checked the relay and even swapped it out for another similar one to test, no difference when cranking. The relay did slip off quite easily, so for good measure I bent the tabs a little to ensure a snug fit before refitting the starter relay.

18th Nov 2019 1:53pm

konamac

Member Since: 08 Sep 2011
Location: Namibia
Posts: 10

HardCharger wrote:
Do your AC blower and radio work? If not, then it is most likely the ignition switch that needs replacing.

Also make sure that the battery clamps are REALLY secured to the posts as sometimes they only seem tight but are actually not. I've take to adding a copper sleeve in between the earth post and clamp to ensure proper contact. For the positive post and clamp, I've used a lead shim as you have to really pound it flat to put it on.

Thanks HardCharger the Ignition Switch powers up all accessories as per usual and supplies power to the correct terminal on crank too.

Regarding the battery terminals I have tried starting with two different batteries with slightly different terminal sizes (the one is more snug than the other) and there is no no difference in the end result, absolutely nothing on crank.

18th Nov 2019 1:58pm

konamac

Member Since: 08 Sep 2011
Location: Namibia
Posts: 10

Update:

I have tried starting with the instrument pack removed and the terminals no's 3 & 4 bridged as described in previous posts on similar problems elsewhere but nothing happens. Same result.

Cue more head scratching...

18th Nov 2019 2:01pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20355

If you've a spare jump lead try a temporary ground between negative battery ground and chassis ground or on the engine block or transfer box.
Easy to do, and would tell you if there is any ground fault if any.

One a couple of minutes work. You'd be surprised what bizarre effects a poor grounding point can have. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇮🇪🇺🇸⛽️🛢️⚙️🧰💪

18th Nov 2019 5:04pm

konamac

Member Since: 08 Sep 2011
Location: Namibia
Posts: 10

Thank, will test that a bit later when I get the chance. I think I also need to try turn the starter over direct from the battery too, just to eliminate that completely. Time for the jump lead tests!

19th Nov 2019 6:00am

konamac

Member Since: 08 Sep 2011
Location: Namibia
Posts: 10

UPDATE: SOLVED

Been meaning to update this for a while, but was on leave.

Turned out the starter motor had failed, did some tests, most simply a bump start when I had some extra hands and she started first time. Dropped in a new starter, which is a job for a three armed alien with extra long fingers and built in sockets but got it done.

So the alarm fault codes were a bit if a red herring and I was able to clear them.

The other thing causing confusion during the diagnostics is the tendency of the passive immobiliser to intervene sporadically on cranking. It you lock and unlock on the fob prior to turning the ignition this is eliminated.

Thanks all for the assistance.

15th Jan 2020 6:12am

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