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discomog

Member Since: 09 May 2015
Location: Notts/Lincs Border
Posts: 2526

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black

If Rivian can do it, why can't JLR

Just been looking at the Rivian website to see how far away they are from production. If Rivian can make a SUV and a Pickup on the same platform then why can't JLR make a new Defender pickup?

Click image to enlarge

https://rivian.com/ Defender 90XS SW
Mini Countryman Cooper S
Morgan Plus 8

18th Sep 2019 7:53pm

Zed

Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3265

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

Because JLR don't want that type of customer. When they talk about a commercial model for work they mean architects, surveyors, middle management at building firms that do site visits and want to look the part. Not working vehicles used by farmers, tree surgeons, utilities etc.

With 90% on PCP you won't see many off-roading for a few years either. Obviously some folks will fake it for the Gram and @youdidnotsleepthere will definitely get some new material but I think most will either be too scared of damage or just not interested in taking it off the tarmac.

It's a Defender in name only. Basically a 'Lifestyle SUV'

The Rivian looks may be marmite but the idea is great.

18th Sep 2019 8:18pm

GREENI

Member Since: 22 Aug 2010
Location: staffs
Posts: 10380

They look pretty awful. I think the designer is into star wars.

18th Sep 2019 9:11pm

RFT

Member Since: 13 Nov 2010
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 678

2010 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Zermatt Silver

The Rivian pick up is targeted at anglers - it can not even carry a full Tesco weekly shop let alone 1.3Te like a HCPU. 130 Puma HCPU with an Artica 240LR Demountable Camper

18th Sep 2019 9:34pm

Ecco

Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 280

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 DCPU Galway Green

JLR cant do it, because they are busy making 4-8Mil pounds a day in losses..

19th Sep 2019 5:16am

tookaphotoof

Member Since: 18 Mar 2013
Location: dordrecht
Posts: 1279

2013 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Santorini Black

I don’t get all the negativity going on on this forum. JLR already lost 355 million pounds in the first six months of 2018. Mostly because of collapsing sales in China. If I remember correctly, they lost almost 45% to them in a quarter.
I haven’t looked up the recent sales figures but I’m fairly confident they haven’t turned the loss in a profit.
Think they want to try to go bankrupt ASAP by bringing out a car only a few people are interested in?
Also, would anyone think most of the original Defenders have been bought by farmers who stack hay bales and logs in the car? If so, think again.
Although I love my slow 130 with leaking roof and all, I can fully understand why the new Defender went this way.
Apart from a few nutcases like us, no one wants a car like this anymore.
I bet the new one will be more comfortable, faster and a better tow car for horse trailers and boats.

19th Sep 2019 5:59am

Ecco

Member Since: 31 Oct 2015
Location: Kuala Lumpur
Posts: 280

..while you may be correct that nobody wants car like old defender anymore, then that raise question, why introduce yet another car(new defender), near identical to rest of the fleet, in its tech as well as performance/ability? Whats new there, that will resonate so well with existing market, which they havent already done, on same, characterless way, which is exactly what is rest of the fleet.

I cant recall anyone here saying that they should keep manufacturing defender as we know it. Conclusion about such move as big no no has been made here long ago. What people here wanted to see is, rugged platform as old defender, but upgraded, better interior, modernized but very easy recognized look of truck,manual and auto tranny available, etc. Thats something what will have large appeal to old user base, as well as new folks..what did they do?? Basically, nothing, just a bleak replica of existing models in line..

Do i want LR to succeed?? Yes of course, only vehicles i do have now is LR. Is that mean that i should keep quiet when i see something i believe is complete wrong?? No, why should anyone do it, especially as someone who did support LR by having their vehicles. Did LR made mistakes in their business decisions?? Financial situation is self evident. Cars they are making are not selling enough. Why?? Look at 'new defender'.

19th Sep 2019 10:25am

Mike c

Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Maldon, Essex
Posts: 928

I liked it how it was... If I didn't I wouldn't be on my second having come back to one again after owning a Discovery in between, I must be a nutter....

19th Sep 2019 10:32am

Lodelaner

Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lambourn
Posts: 631

1988 Defender 90 V8 Petrol ST Shire Blue

Re: If Rivian can do it, why can't JLR

discomog wrote:
Just been looking at the Rivian website to see how far away they are from production. If Rivian can make a SUV and a Pickup on the same platform then why can't JLR make a new Defender pickup?

In engineering terms because the Rivian is built on a ladder chassis and the new Defender is a monocoque.

Pick ups make sense because they are cheaper to make than an estate when built on a ladder chassis ...and then owners plonk a plastic back on them. However re-engineering/tooling a monocoque would add cost. So it looks like JLR have decided at the product plannng stage that the potential sales mix of a PU didn't overcome the limitations of a ladder chassis design. JB

@Lodelaner Instagram

Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content

19th Sep 2019 10:52am

Lodelaner

Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lambourn
Posts: 631

Ecco wrote:
JLR cant do it, because they are busy making 4-8Mil pounds a day in losses..

Really?

Rivian don't have a factory confirmed, haven't tooled and won't produce a car for a couple of years. They'll be in hock to the tune of 2.5 billion by then. You might want to give RJ Scaringe a bell and tell him he's got it horribly wrong and Amazon have messed up by investing in him as well! JB

@Lodelaner Instagram

Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content

19th Sep 2019 10:58am

dorsetsmith

Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: South West
Posts: 4554

In engineering terms because the Rivian is built on a ladder chassis and the new Defender is a monocoque. as stated also JLR have target market for this past and copy thing now making and pickup not in the sale strategy

19th Sep 2019 11:05am

tookaphotoof

Member Since: 18 Mar 2013
Location: dordrecht
Posts: 1279

Ecco wrote:
..while you may be correct that nobody wants car like old defender anymore, then that raise question, why introduce yet another car(new defender), near identical to rest of the fleet, in its tech as well as performance/ability? Whats new there, that will resonate so well with existing market, which they havent already done, on same, characterless way, which is exactly what is rest of the fleet.

I cant recall anyone here saying that they should keep manufacturing defender as we know it. Conclusion about such move as big no no has been made here long ago. What people here wanted to see is, rugged platform as old defender, but upgraded, better interior, modernized but very easy recognized look of truck,manual and auto tranny available, etc. Thats something what will have large appeal to old user base, as well as new folks..what did they do?? Basically, nothing, just a bleak replica of existing models in line..

Do i want LR to succeed?? Yes of course, only vehicles i do have now is LR. Is that mean that i should keep quiet when i see something i believe is complete wrong?? No, why should anyone do it, especially as someone who did support LR by having their vehicles. Did LR made mistakes in their business decisions?? Financial situation is self evident. Cars they are making are not selling enough. Why?? Look at 'new defender'.

I said “apart from a few nutcases” of which I’m one.
If you mean forum members with “people like us” I agree. But we are in too small numbers.
Personally I think Land Rover has made the right decision and I’m confident the car will sell better than the Defender we all like so much. Time moves on. Tough luck for us I guess.

19th Sep 2019 11:45am

dnorrishill

Member Since: 15 Jul 2011
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 615

2014 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Aintree Green

Also why would JLR want to enter such a crowded market (Ranger, Hilux, L200/Triton, Amarok, D-Max, X-Class, Navara, SsangYong Musso, etc.)?

Surely they are better off targeting a more unique position in the market?

Also the 90 version is almost without rival in the UK certainly - apart from the Toyota Land Cruiser I don't believe there are many/any other short wheel based 4x4's (Shogun is being phased out soon I believe).

19th Sep 2019 12:07pm

milesr3

Member Since: 12 Feb 2013
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 873

2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Keswick Green

Ecco wrote:
why introduce yet another car (new defender), near identical to rest of the fleet, in its tech as well as performance/ability?

Because it's a new model, the next new thing, and it will generate net new sales.

Back in the day you could buy a 3, 5 or 7-series BMW. Now you can buy a 1, 2, 4, X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6, i3, i8 etc and the coupes can be had with two or four doors. All these niche within niche vehicles have been invented by economies of scale from platform sharing. Land Rover are just doing the same.

To answer the OP; JLR could build a Defender DCPU, in the same way that they could have continued to evolve the old Defender. They just chose not to because there are greater profits in selling premium SUVs.

19th Sep 2019 12:10pm

Supacat

Member Since: 16 Oct 2012
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 11018

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS DCPU Keswick Green

Re: If Rivian can do it, why can't JLR

Widget wrote:
discomog wrote:
Just been looking at the Rivian website to see how far away they are from production. If Rivian can make a SUV and a Pickup on the same platform then why can't JLR make a new Defender pickup?

In engineering terms because the Rivian is built on a ladder chassis and the new Defender is a monocoque.

It's built on what they call a "skateboard" chassis. Perhaps similar in some ways to a ladder, but definitely a new different animal.

Click image to enlarge

19th Sep 2019 12:31pm

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