 | Home > Off Topic > Shocking driving standards |
 
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| Mike c Member Since: 11 Aug 2017 Location: Maldon, Essex Posts: 930   
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The above comment regarding company KPI targets I am sure is a very common predicament that many drivers find themselves in who drive for work these days.
It's terrible really and yes at the same time the same companies are constantly telling employees how much their welfare matters etc!  |
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1st Sep 2019 2:02pm |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3150  
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I do a fair few miles for work and leisure and yes I have to say standards have dropped. People generally seem to think the speed limits don't apply to them and double solid white lines don't seem to be noticed either. You don't really see police about but then again you would have to be a total cretin to misbehave in front of them anyway. There doesn't seem to be any social stigma to it all either. Forums and facebook are awash with admissions of speeding for example.
I will soon invest in a dash cam and will be sending any relevant footage to my local police, I'm just totally sick of it. If I can drive in accordance with the law anyone can. On my commute (twisty country road with 50 limit) I get overtaken by speeders probably daily. If the police can't be there we need to help them out. Oh and chap with the horse box, you 100% need to report that driver. 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" Last edited by 22900013A on 3rd Sep 2019 5:39pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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3rd Sep 2019 5:38pm |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3150
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. Double post 2011 110 USW
1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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3rd Sep 2019 5:38pm |
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| Mike c Member Since: 11 Aug 2017 Location: Maldon, Essex Posts: 930
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I think one of the problems is the perception of speed to drivers has been taken away in modern vehicles through advanced development of nvh levels, huge dashboards/infotainment systems etc...
It encourages people to drive faster without realising it, irrelevant of the speedo reading! Mike |
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4th Sep 2019 7:30am |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3508 
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I think that's a very fair point, Mike c
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4th Sep 2019 7:56am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443 
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Another part of the problem is that in our obsessive quest for "safety" we have deskilled the task of driving to the point where people who are fundamentally incapable of doing anything are now convinced that not only can they drive well but they have a right to do so.
In a way the falling standards are closing the circle by re-introducing danger to the roads. If Darwin was right, eventually it will only be the competent drivers who, by driving defensively and applying advanced hazard perception and anticipation, survive the mayhem. Don't look on it as a question of falling standards, look at it rather as an evolutionary inevitability of humankind. |
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4th Sep 2019 8:18am |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4216 
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An earlier poster mentioned the modern trend for businesses (and public sector organisations that are trying to be more business like)is to focus their efforts on KPIs and delivery against defined targets. Organisations are given these targets by themselves, or have them imposed from above, based on what data tells them is the priority issues of the day and what political pressure is coming down. "What's this got to do with driving standards?" you might be thinking. For a long time, Britain's roads have been amongst the safest in the world, far ahead of even some of our closest European neighbours. So when someone in the Home Office, or Senior police leaders are deciding where to focus their scarce resources, road safety is a long way down the list of things as it is not a problem according to the stats, and hence why there are almost no police traffic units, in the old sense, still in existence. Those specialist officers are now in road crime teams looking at all manner of other crimes that occur on the road. Not only has this lead to fewer time spent dealing with run of the mill driving offences, but those officers are to some extent de-skilled in the specialist area that was traffic.
Also when weighing up there prioritise from a political or emotional point of view, how can a police force justify road traffic offences when they have got knife crime, drug gangs and abuse vying for their attention? And that is my view on why you don't see much police activity on the roads, and why driving standards are poor. No incentive to drive properly as the chance of getting caught is low. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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4th Sep 2019 9:53am |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3508
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It was me Bluest talking about KPI's.
This is how it works (even in the public sector). Procurement departments buy in services by issuing a specification with these KPI's or delivery levels. These people are bean counters and have no idea what they are buying. The companies who bid for these contracts / works have a bid team. These people are sales persons who don't necessarily have any experience in carrying out the work / project they are bidding for. These people tend to say 'Yes' (see Carillion / Interserve for details on how companies buy work). When the contract is won (at a vastly reduced rate from the original contract value after 'discussions'), non of the above parties are involved so it is up to Contracts Managers to try and make it work (or not in the case of Carilion). In most cases the biggest expense in these contracts is people and vehicles and this is where the savings are made, but the downside is the people doing the work have to travel enormous distances. It's mad, but that's how it works. And because of this, often these people are pressurised into getting somewhere in a less than safe manner. This isn't the only reason why driving standards are low, but I know from bitter experience that this kind of thing is happening all of the time. Ever fancied getting from Lincoln to Bedford in two hours to repair something? Sometimes it take 45 minutes to get out of Lincoln. And the phone keeps ringing with a Helpdesk operator wanting to know where you are and why it is taking so long? The laughable thing was, she couldn't even drive and probably had never been to either Lincoln or Bedford, let alone driven between them. And all the time, these companies are all pedalling the 'We look after our employees wellbeing and health and safety is our priority' band wagon. It's not an excuse, but there are a lot of people who don't realise that this kind of thing is happening, day in, day out. |
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4th Sep 2019 11:02am |
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| 22900013A Member Since: 23 Dec 2010 Location: Oxfordshire Posts: 3150
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I think people *do* realise that is happening. I've worked in haulage and let's just say there was not exactly any kind of reward for sticking to speed limits...
The only solution is for drivers to refuse to break the law, as otherwise they are just expected to. 2011 110 USW 1973 Series III 1-Ton 1972 Series III 1-Ton Cherrypicker 1969 IIA 1-Ton 1966 IIA 88" |
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5th Sep 2019 5:48am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829  
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I couldn’t agree more BW. I actually have some somewhat contentious points of view on this. Whilst no one would think higher speed limits in urban areas would be sensible, especially around schools and areas of vulnerability, I think constantly reducing speed limits whilst at the same time increasing the inherent safety (and safety features) on modern cars, puts people at best into a false sense of security, at worst sheer complacency. As such, they drive with no due care and attention, no road awareness, no awareness of weather conditions, no awareness of vulnerable road users such as bikes/motorbikes etc. Further, they’re cocooned in a super quiet box, warm, listening to Radio2, eating M&Ms, being distracted by pings on their phone as they are bombarded by emails and SM notifications. They are in a bubble and oblivious to what’s going on around them. So, whilst this is impractical from a UK point of view due to over-crowding, I do think that on certain A-roads and motorways, speed limits should be increased, not decreased, deliberately to keep people alert. Otherwise we are breeding a generation of people who are permanently switched off, in their own world, drifting, dithering, vacant. Additionally, I think we need to get away from the idea that driving is a ‘right’. In many other fields of work, if you fail a test five times, that’s it, game over. But for some reason we find it funny that someone took 19 attempts to pass a driving test and even when they did they scraped it. We find it so funny we make TV programmes about it. But if someone takes 19 attempts to pass our (frankly laughably easy) practical test, they shouldn’t be driving a 1.5t+ piece of lethal metal. I think changes need to be brought in to the test, which would both make it harder to pass, and when people do, they’d appreciate the value of their licence more. The first thing to change would be to fix a limit of the number of tests any person can take. Five for example. But certainly not unlimited. Further, rather than relying on just a single, 30min practical test, (which, knowing how people can panic in a test environment, might disadvantage them), there should also be some long-term mentoring included as well. In France, I forget the number, but I’m pretty sure a student has to have 15 hrs of obligatory driving lessons with a qualified instructor. If compulsory lessons were also obligatory in the UK, then they could be mentored (much like ‘coursework’ in GCSEs) at the same time. So a final test, but only after a period of gradual mentoring/‘coursework’. Finally, in almost every other exam we take in our lifetimes, we’re graded, and those grades impact what happens after the test. Why is this not the case with driving. Get a D in A Level English Lit and at most you miss your spot at Uni. Be a D-level driver but pass your binary, pass or fail, driving test and hit the road as a risk to other road-users. Grade the driving test from A-E like all other exams. If you pass with a grade E, you can only drive a 1ltr car, in daylight hours, no passengers, no motorways. Pass with an A and you can drive (as now) any car, anytime, anywhere, with passengers. If you want to improve your E grade, you have to go back and be re-tested. If you want to drive an M5 and you only have a C-pass, you have to take further lessons, go back and be retested. And alongside this, driver insurance could be adjusted too. As with many countries, there should be separate insurance to protect a car, (theft, damage etc), which could be done under a household policy, but insurance for driving on the roads should be against the protagonist, the driver, not the vehicle. Again, I think it will make people think twice about how they act if they know they personally will lose out in the event of an accident. Finally, make our fines for mobile phone use/drinking, much, much harsher. We are inherently selfish. Do a poll of people about the personal liability or risk of using a mobile phone whilst driving or drink driving, and most people will say ‘losing their licence’. Almost NO-ONE says the greatest liability of my using a mobile phone whilst driving is that I might kill someone and have to live with that fact for the rest of my life. So any adverts of the ‘dangers’ associated with mobiles and drink, are frankly (IMHO) a waste of time. Make the laws and the fines draconian, and people will start learning. Hit people caught using a mobile at the wheel with an Automatic 6-month ban, plus £500 fine, plus a remedial driver course, plus a re-test, and do a surge op across the country hitting people hard, and where it hurts; their freedom and their pockets. The word will spread and they’ll learn quickly. Pussy foot around with small-ish fines and a couple of points, and people will continue to take the risk. Mobile usage, especially SMS/SM use, is in my opinion the greatest threat to road users now. And it would be so easy to prove, with date collected by phones and by Patrol dash cams able to prove what was done, when, where and by whom. Anyway, not sure why I’m saying this, it’ll never happen. Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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5th Sep 2019 6:53am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17443
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I totally agree, Monsieur Le G.
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5th Sep 2019 8:34am |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2165 
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a system similar to you describe @Grenadier, has been in place for a number of years..............
except it only applies to Motorcycles!! never really understood how little Jonny could raid the (large) bank of Daddy and purchase a top of the range AMG, Ferrari or whatever and jump straight in after walking out of the test centre when the 2wheeled laws are so restrictive (and allegedly for the very same rationale) |
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5th Sep 2019 11:46am |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5829
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The only difference being 90 Dreamer, that ironically the restricted engine sizes on motorbikes are there to protect the rider, not third parties. Whereas an out-of-control 2t car could wipe out a handful of people standing at a bus top etc etc. Really doesnt make sense.... Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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5th Sep 2019 11:52am |
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| Zed Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: In the woods Posts: 3310 
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Some excellent points Grenadier. Sadly it is not seen as ‘vote winner’ so it’ll never happen.
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5th Sep 2019 12:05pm |
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