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Markez79

Member Since: 27 Jun 2018
Location: South West
Posts: 201

Articulation vs Anti Roll Bar

Hi,

As an intro, I use the Landy most weekends as a family vehicle so a lot of time spent on road, but when I do take her off road (most in winter on very muddy/deep ruts etc) I want to improve the off road handling and articulation.

A couple of questions (!):

1. What level of articulation can be achieved if I was to keep the ARB’s (front and rear) in place, but fit longer travel shocks etc?

2. If I was to remove both ARB’s would it make the Defender a nightmare on road?

3. If I was to remove the rear ARB but not the front, what would that do to articulation vs road manners?

4. If keeping the front ARB in place, would I still be able to achieve good articulation, or only at the Rear?

Sorry if these questions are daft.....I’m a bit of a newbie when it comes to this stuff.

M

7th May 2019 5:47pm

bankz5152

Member Since: 02 Feb 2017
Location: South London/North Kent
Posts: 2192

My landy doesnt have any ARBs and i drive 60 - 80 miles a day for work. Country lanes and Mway. Not missed them.

Best comp would be to remove the front, keep the rear. Instagram @defender_ventures
Empire Tuning - Agent

7th May 2019 6:28pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Quote:
A couple of questions (!):

1. What level of articulation can be achieved if I was to keep the ARB’s (front and rear) in place, but fit longer travel shocks etc?

2. If I was to remove both ARB’s would it make the Defender a nightmare on road?

3. If I was to remove the rear ARB but not the front, what would that do to articulation vs road manners?

4. If keeping the front ARB in place, would I still be able to achieve good articulation, or only at the Rear?

1) No point fitting longer shocks with standard ARBs in place, they are the limiting factor.

2) No, but you will have to drive more cautiously.

3) You would end up with oversteer, due to the front ARB, which makes for interesting driving.

4) The front would be limited by the front ARB and the rear would articulate well.

And finally to the 5th question...

5) Look to fit a standard ARB up front and an X-Eng rear ARB at the rear. The X-Eng rear ARB allows for the unlocking of the ARB when you go offroad and providing you have them fitted will allow +5" shocks to be fitted. Plus the road manners are brilliant. I know, I have it fitted to my 110 and wouldn't be without it now.

7th May 2019 6:33pm

Markez79

Member Since: 27 Jun 2018
Location: South West
Posts: 201

Many thanks!

With respect to Q5, would I miss the front articulation if I kept the front ARB and replaced the rear with the X-Eng variant?

Sounds like it will be a bit lopsided...!

Thanks

Mark

7th May 2019 8:11pm

Thon

Member Since: 22 Nov 2015
Location: Salisbury Plain
Posts: 696

Re: point 3) - Not wishing to start or participate in an argument, and understanding that in theory your assumption of front ARB on its own would induce oversteer, I have recently done exactly that (due to chassis bracket damage) and found no noticeable difference with "normal" driving.

I don't tend to pootle about, do mainly backroads driving and I have a full cage and Hannibal rack yet have not felt its driving or roll characteristics noticeably altered since the rear ARB was removed.

What happens under extreme and rapid changes of direction / steering input is not known (Moose test style) but then I tend not to drive in that manner anyway, and i'm not sure how great a Defender is under those circumstances even with the full complement of ARBs.

Like I said, not starting an argument, just my own observations.

7th May 2019 8:19pm

Markez79

Member Since: 27 Jun 2018
Location: South West
Posts: 201

bankz5152 wrote:
My landy doesnt have any ARBs and i drive 60 - 80 miles a day for work. Country lanes and Mway. Not missed them.

Best comp would be to remove the front, keep the rear.

Is the front ARB easy to remove?

Thanks

7th May 2019 8:24pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8165

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

I run a 110 and a 90 with just front arbs. Front travel isint massive anyway and works ok with front arb.

Rear travel improved significantly without arb.

If you only have one your better with front arb. Cheers

James
110 2010 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

7th May 2019 8:44pm

Orchard

Member Since: 07 May 2015
Location: Usually walking the dog
Posts: 258

Regarding the understeer/oversteer chat.
Many things affect this but overall tendency is determined by the balance of roll stiffness front to rear. If nothing else changes increasing the front of roll stiffness (eg a larger dia ARB) will promote greater understeer. So removing it completely will likely generate the opposite effect, oversteer. Vice versa with the rear.
This is complex though as on a Defender there is some geometric roll oversteer in rear axle, so less roll angle also reduces that effect.
The manufacturers spend years honing and testing all this, so making gross changes like removing just the front ARB will affect the handling in some circumstances, when you least expect it. Take care. 2015 90 XS SW Bowler
1998 TD5 CSW

7th May 2019 10:45pm

Thon

Member Since: 22 Nov 2015
Location: Salisbury Plain
Posts: 696

The 90/110/130 and Defender models have been supplied with none, rear only and both (the order in which I have also owned them by coincidence).

I'm not sure in the case of the Defender any aspect of them was carefully honed by Land Rover.

7th May 2019 11:07pm

Tribord

Member Since: 20 Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 220

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS DCPU Zermatt Silver

The X-Eng ARB that can be disconnected sounds interesting. When disconnected, what additional articulation do you get with standard suspension? Or do you need to replace springs/shocks to take advantage?
Also how easy/quick is it to disconnect/connect?

8th May 2019 5:27pm

Markez79

Member Since: 27 Jun 2018
Location: South West
Posts: 201

I would like to know this too

9th May 2019 11:14am

Tribord

Member Since: 20 Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 220

I tried to contact Foundry4x4 for more info on the X-Eng Deflex ARB (they appear to be the main supplier), but they do not respond to messages/email/web requests. Does anyone know if there are other suppliers, or alternative ARBs that can easily be disconnected?

17th May 2019 7:51am

Markez79

Member Since: 27 Jun 2018
Location: South West
Posts: 201

I would like to know this as well!

17th May 2019 10:44am

diesel_jim

Member Since: 13 Oct 2008
Location: hiding
Posts: 6126

If you're just driving "deep ruts and mud" as you say, I don't think losing a bit of articulation will make much difference to be honest.

IMO better to have a slight increase in road going comfort/safety

17th May 2019 7:17pm

Markez79

Member Since: 27 Jun 2018
Location: South West
Posts: 201

Yep, that’s why I’m interested in the X-Eng ARB.....seems best of both worlds.

Thanks

18th May 2019 5:45pm

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