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Doc P

Member Since: 03 Apr 2016
Location: Midlands
Posts: 565

2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Firenze Red

Possibly a dumb plumbing question?

Click image to enlarge

We’ve unfortunately got a microbore heating system with 4 of the rads having these twin entry valves on them. I need to remove 2. I’ve turned the supply to the rad off using the stop valve (left) and cracked open the nut by the valve where it joins the radiator to start draining it. Despite a few litres draining, there is still fast flow of water from the bleed valve on the top of the radiator and it sounds like more water’s flowing in each time I empty any off.
To me, that means the stop valve is bypassing and I need a complete drain down and to replace the valves.
Before I phone a plumber (again), is there any way it could be refilling through the ‘out’ pipe? I assume not as I assume it’s a one-way valve jobby.

30th Nov 2018 2:03pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6300

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

hi doc p.

think you've got a by-pass valve there so you're probably going to have to drain the whole system including the header tank.
if you're talking about the main incoming water supply valve / stop cock then yes it's possibly passing.

Assuming you do have a header or F&E tank as opposed to a closed / pressurised system have you simply lifted the float valve to stop the tank refilling?

good luck.

Last edited by Caterham on 30th Nov 2018 2:11pm. Edited 1 time in total

30th Nov 2018 2:09pm

JOW240725

Member Since: 04 May 2015
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 7906

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

I'm no expert but it would seem to me the two valves are in parallel so it doesn't have a stop vavlve? If so you will need to drain the whole system

James
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30th Nov 2018 2:10pm

Doc P

Member Since: 03 Apr 2016
Location: Midlands
Posts: 565

Yes, we’ve got F+E tank in the loft.

Sounds like my fears are correct. These valves are hard to come by and our usual plumber’s younger than the valves!!

I’m not confident enough to risk mucking about with such small diameter pipes, so I think I’ll have to ask him what to do.

30th Nov 2018 2:16pm

OJ

Member Since: 23 Nov 2018
Location: North of Edinburgh
Posts: 121

2015 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Corris Grey

Re: Possibly a dumb plumbing question?

Doc P wrote:

Click image to enlarge

We’ve unfortunately got a microbore heating system with 4 of the rads having these twin entry valves on them. I need to remove 2. I’ve turned the supply to the rad off using the stop valve (left) and cracked open the nut by the valve where it joins the radiator to start draining it. Despite a few litres draining, there is still fast flow of water from the bleed valve on the top of the radiator and it sounds like more water’s flowing in each time I empty any off.
To me, that means the stop valve is bypassing and I need a complete drain down and to replace the valves.
Before I phone a plumber (again), is there any way it could be refilling through the ‘out’ pipe? I assume not as I assume it’s a one-way valve jobby.

Hi Doc, if you take the cap off the one on the right it might have a screw head on top of the spindle, screw it down clockwise to close it, the one on the left will close with the knob or adjuster, good luck

30th Nov 2018 2:20pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6300

doc p

you got similar valves both sides I presume?

30th Nov 2018 2:22pm

leeds

Member Since: 28 Dec 2009
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 8582

Not sure if it is the valves or radiator you need to replace.

If you can get under the floor, then use pipe insulation and freezer spray.

You will have enough time to replace the radiator.

If need more time replace the valve with compression end stops.

Brendan

30th Nov 2018 2:42pm

Doc P

Member Since: 03 Apr 2016
Location: Midlands
Posts: 565

Caterham wrote:
doc p

you got similar valves both sides I presume?

Both flow and return valves in the same body (at the same end - in and out). Theres a length of copper pipe joined to the inlet hole of the valve which runs along inside the bottom of the radiator. The return is right next to it in the valve body but far away from where the warm water comes out of that piece of piping🙄 The pipe had dropped off the valve so the radiator wasn’t heating up!

Friend of mine knows his plumbing. Had to screw down the balancing screw under the other cap as OJ suggests - which I didn’t realise! Got them off thanks to his and your help.

Thanks all again for the ideas.

30th Nov 2018 3:35pm

Caterham

Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 6300

Never come across that before. I presume there's a by-pass feature in so much that if you remove that valve the heating still gets round the system?

30th Nov 2018 3:45pm

windy81

Member Since: 14 Mar 2018
Location: North Wales
Posts: 311

you'll need to re balance the flow into that rad again when you re-install.

30th Nov 2018 4:16pm

OJ

Member Since: 23 Nov 2018
Location: North of Edinburgh
Posts: 121

Doc P wrote:
Caterham wrote:
doc p

you got similar valves both sides I presume?

Both flow and return valves in the same body (at the same end - in and out). Theres a length of copper pipe joined to the inlet hole of the valve which runs along inside the bottom of the radiator. The return is right next to it in the valve body but far away from where the warm water comes out of that piece of piping🙄 The pipe had dropped off the valve so the radiator wasn’t heating up!

Friend of mine knows his plumbing. Had to screw down the balancing screw under the other cap as OJ suggests - which I didn’t realise! Got them off thanks to his and your help.

Thanks all again for the ideas.

great job, well done Doc

30th Nov 2018 5:06pm

Balvaig

Member Since: 19 Feb 2016
Location: Fife
Posts: 732

2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 Landmark LE Corris Grey

These valves are obsolete as you probably know. You can turn off the square headed valve and lock down the valve with the inset screw to change the radiator. You have to collect a radiator full of water when you crack the nut connecting the valve to the radiator.
To change the valve you will need to partially or fully drain down the system by turning off the water to the header tank and opening the drain valve on the system. You only need to partially drain the system if the radiator is on the first floor.

You then need to fit a valve at each end of the radiator, extending the existing pipes behind the radiator as necessary.
Not a big job if you have done plumbing before.

30th Nov 2018 11:01pm

J@mes

Member Since: 20 Apr 2012
Location: Bomber County
Posts: 36

My house was full of rads with this arrangement on, when I renovated I took the floor up and re routed the pipes to conventionally feed/return from either end instead as I pretty much new I'd end up doing it when one of the valves failed anyway.

British Gas had done a few before I bought the house, and had just clipped the new pipework along the middle of the skirting board. It looked terrible.

1st Dec 2018 6:27am

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