 | Home > Technical > Gap IID Diagnostic tool issues with 2008 Puma and 10AS |
 
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| Gillan Member Since: 01 Apr 2016 Location: Sheffield Posts: 35   
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Im having the exact same symptoms as you with my tool the only way I got it to start was to turn the active alarm off but like you said it returns to active when you re-read the cars ccf but it's definitely turned off there must be a bug in the firmware i think it maybe worth emailing Pat from gap
I hope this helps Gillan |
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25th Aug 2018 5:52pm |
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| johnnyd Member Since: 13 Apr 2013 Location: Chippenham Posts: 1006 
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Hi Gilliam, so far I am not impressed with this tool, the previous firmware would not read the CCF data at all just errored, now I have a broken truck with the newer firmware, I am beginning to wish I had bought a nanocom, Pat does not seem to be around, I have pm’d him a couple of times.....I will try your temporary fix tomorrow to see if it works, but given I bought this tool to disable the immobiliser, It seems to make it worse in that I can’t actually start the truck now.
JD Gillan......sorry, iPad text thing 2008 TDCi 2.4 XS CSW |
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25th Aug 2018 6:05pm |
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| johnnyd Member Since: 13 Apr 2013 Location: Chippenham Posts: 1006
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Hi Gillan
Just to confirm that changing that setting active alarm off will allow the truck to start, although now I have a bunch of new errors reported by the tool that will not clear now, so something is very broken with this firmware I think. I might try and get a refund from where I bought this tool, like I say I bought this tool to get me out of a hole if I was placed in it again (See my France breakdown thread) not to make things worse which is what it seems to be doing currently, like I say thats 2 firmware releases on this tool that have not worked properly, one even disabling starting of the truck, and I have only had it a week or so........How have you found the tool? How long have you had it? Have I just hit it at a bad time? JD 2008 TDCi 2.4 XS CSW |
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26th Aug 2018 7:11am |
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| Gillan Member Since: 01 Apr 2016 Location: Sheffield Posts: 35
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Hi johnnyd to be honest I've not had much luck with the tool too my first one was replaced under warranty as that failed mid programming on my range rover but in all fairness every time I've contacted Pat through their website though he's got back to me within the hour at to which point I was still getting the tool right at 11pm with him still responding I've also got a black box msv extreme from a previous range rover I had and that was absolutely awful to use (at nearly £1200 I wasn't impressed) when I first got it literally plugged it in first time and it wouldn't even find the vehicle and it took 3 weeks to resolve so I was going to buy a puma licence for the extreme but I'd thought it'd be better and easier to buy the gap tool instead and cut my losses I think just hang on a little bit email Pat through the gap website and take it from there if he knows there is more than one with the same issues im sure a he'll sort new firmware out
I hope this helps and let me know how you get on Gillan |
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26th Aug 2018 10:54am |
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| PatGAPInnov Site Sponsor Member Since: 19 Jan 2015 Location: Montreal Posts: 45 
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Hi Guys
Back from vacation, I shut the phone down 
The 10AS is a write only module. In other words, a diagnostic tool cannot know the status of settings thus we always show a default value since the read function is not implemented in the 10AS. Changes are, however, applied correctly. All normal... Immobilizer-wise, you cannot disable it in the 10AS without flashing the engine ECU. Engine is waiting for data to be sent by the 10 AS. Not received? Not happy... The cure is to update the engine ECU with a non-immobilizer version. These steps shall not be taken lightly hence allow plenty of time to do them in case something goes wrong. Simply contact us for more details. PM on its way... Cheers http://www.gap-diagnostic.com/  |
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27th Aug 2018 5:08pm |
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| johnnyd Member Since: 13 Apr 2013 Location: Chippenham Posts: 1006
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Hi Pat.....Pm'd you back
I think there is a misunderstanding in all of the dialogues going on, both myself and Gillan had to resort to the first option in the 10as settings of 'turn active alarm off' as both of our trucks would not start at all after trying to set the passive immobiliser setting to DISABLED , after doing this, both our trucks would not start at all with the immobiliser permanently active, the process of turning active alarm off was desperation to get the truck started. JD 2008 TDCi 2.4 XS CSW |
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27th Aug 2018 5:42pm |
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| PatGAPInnov Site Sponsor Member Since: 19 Jan 2015 Location: Montreal Posts: 45
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Hi Johnny
Here's the basic scenario which explains what happened. 1-On the first iteration, you have disabled the Immobilizer 2-Car refuses to start 3-You do a second change which turns off the Alarm setting but, and this is where the App warning messages are important, re-enables the immobilizer thus permit engine starting. Step 3 in more details: -The CCF function is entered and 10AS selected. Since this ECU configs cannot be read, the tool populates the list with default values for each setting. -You change the Alarm setting to disabled Click image to enlarge -The immobilizer setting is however set to enable which is the detault value. Remember, we cannot know that’s its disabled in the ECU since it cannot be read. Click image to enlarge -Proceed with the write and the following messages are shown: Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge -This ECU uses old technology and all settings are written at once, thus in this case, re-enable immobilizer and disable alarm. -Engine Starts… In conclusion, from my last reply, immobilizer-wise, you cannot disable it in the 10AS without flashing the engine ECU. Engine is waiting for data to be sent by the 10 AS. Not received? Not happy... The cure is to update the engine ECU with a non-immobilizer version. These steps shall not be taken lightly hence allow plenty of time to do them in case something goes wrong. is valid Hope this helps Cheers http://www.gap-diagnostic.com/ |
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28th Aug 2018 2:38pm |
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| johnnyd Member Since: 13 Apr 2013 Location: Chippenham Posts: 1006
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Hi Pat
Thanks for the reply, just so I get this straight in my head......We both did not initially touch the Alarm disable function, we only switched off passive immobiliser ...... Both our vehicles then would not start normally, the immobiliser was permanently on.....Is that the expected behaviour? JD 2008 TDCi 2.4 XS CSW |
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28th Aug 2018 3:31pm |
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| PatGAPInnov Site Sponsor Member Since: 19 Jan 2015 Location: Montreal Posts: 45
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Hi Johnny
Yes, since the engine is not happy... Immobilizer needs to be disabled in both. -10AS via Car Config -Engine ECU via flashing with a non immo version Cheers http://www.gap-diagnostic.com/ |
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28th Aug 2018 3:50pm |
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| johnnyd Member Since: 13 Apr 2013 Location: Chippenham Posts: 1006
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OK that is confusing me, I thought disabling passive immobiliser would switch off the fob talking to the coil setting, and also the deferred activation of the immobiliser after a period of time? That was what I was led to believe reading through loads of threads on this, is that not correct?
Thanks Pat JD 2008 TDCi 2.4 XS CSW |
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28th Aug 2018 3:57pm |
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| PatGAPInnov Site Sponsor Member Since: 19 Jan 2015 Location: Montreal Posts: 45
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But this does not account for the engine waiting on the 10AS message. Its not sent when immobilizer is disabled.
Setting change affect only the 10AS, not the engine which still needs immobilizer key... http://www.gap-diagnostic.com/ |
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28th Aug 2018 4:22pm |
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| johnnyd Member Since: 13 Apr 2013 Location: Chippenham Posts: 1006
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Hi Pat.....OK that makes more sense, that was not very clear in all the threads I read on various blogs and forums, so how do I recover the vehicle to its normal state? I tried the Restore all to default last week, but the vehicle still was immobilised? Also how do I get an ECU rewrite done do you know??
Thank you again JD 2008 TDCi 2.4 XS CSW |
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28th Aug 2018 4:37pm |
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| PatGAPInnov Site Sponsor Member Since: 19 Jan 2015 Location: Montreal Posts: 45
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Certainly, it needs to be renewed:
Menu--Service Test--Engine--Renew security ID between 10AS and PCM http://www.gap-diagnostic.com/ |
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28th Aug 2018 9:22pm |
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| bell-auto-services Member Since: 08 Jul 2007 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 2232 
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Ive not ever had a problem doing and config/ccf changes on the defender 10as module in the past using the IID tool.
What I will say is their is not an option in the 10as to totally remove the immobiliser requirements from the engine ecu, this would need doing in the engine ecu with a special remap/calibration which we do sell on our web shop. I must say after I have done any 10as changes in the past ive most times gone into the service/test menu and done a Renew Security ID to ensure the 10as and the engine are still paired together. |
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28th Aug 2018 9:30pm |
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