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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17463   
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In what way? At least the Puma has a decent gearbox not the ghastly R380! 
I agree that in many ways the later vehicles are a disappointment. It all started to go wrong with the introduction of plastic and coil springs. |
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19th Feb 2024 9:23pm |
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2867
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l've heard that the Puma gearbox isn't great. Happy to be proven wrong though.
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20th Feb 2024 8:17am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17463
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It's a lot better in almost every respect to the R380, in my experience, however these things are completely subjective and one man's nectar is another man's poison.
I am intrigued by your "user friendly" observation though and would like to know what it in your mind. To me, the TD5 engine behaves more like a traditional car engine (little power at the bottom and but a progressive and predictable ramp to the top end) and the TDCi is much more like driving a Scania (bags of torque at the bottom end and fairly flat thereafter). If you are brought up on cars - like most people - and want a car-like experience - like most people - you'll probably prefer the TD5. If you have extensive truck experience or want a workhorse for towing and heavy work, the TDCi kills the TD5 completely. One the downside, the TDCi eats drivelines (but not gearboxes) if used hard, the TD5 less so since the engine is smoother and the useful torque is at a higher speed. One the downside for a TD5, anyone in the second row breaks their neck in an accident, in the TDCi they have head restraints and live. And so it goes on, no simple answer, horses for courses, don't buy till you try, and all that! 
I agree with you 100% about build quality, you would be hard put to find a vehicle built with less care than a late Defender. That is really what I was suggesting with my plastic and coil spring observation, it was downhill steadily from then. And don't get me started on the "SUV" generation! Edit for typo - "care" had appeared as "case" - thanks autocorrect! Last edited by blackwolf on 20th Feb 2024 3:15pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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20th Feb 2024 8:51am |
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2867
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l am on the fence between TD5 and Puma
l haven't actually owned a Puma Defender, although l've driven them. The better HVAC system certainly appeals although l would miss the vent flaps for fresh air. |
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20th Feb 2024 2:15pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 755
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There can be a few issues, although most easily sorted. Ultimately though the same box is used in the same era Mustang GT and loads of people have successfully run 450-600hp through them. It is a much stronger box than the Rover ones. The biggest weakness is the implementation, they just seem jerky to use, no matter how you drive. Not just the gearchange, but the clutch, throttle and electronics. Driving them quick off the line going 1st thru 2nd and 3rd gears is not easy at all. The R380 & Td5 is much smoother. But once rolling the Puma's go well and remapped they are another league. The 65 plate hardtop has been on the dyno making 190hp. But its party trick is 25-30mph in 5th and just roll onto the throttle, it'll shove you in the back and not let off until about 90mph. Very impressive. |
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20th Feb 2024 8:06pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17463
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I feel that this comment tends to support my assertion above. Why would anyone want to drive a Defender "quick off the line"? It's a utility vehicle not a car! It's intended for lifting a 3.5 tonne trailer away from rest on a 1-in-4 hill. You wouldn't expect a tractor to be quick off the line, why expect a Defender to be? If you want quick-off-the-line you should buy a car (or one of those ridiculous things now known as an SUV) not a Defender!  |
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21st Feb 2024 10:01am |
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| AMBxx Member Since: 24 Jul 2016 Location: York Posts: 1034 
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Blackwolf - you beat me to it.
For me, one of the joys of driving the Defender is not being rushed. It's why it's such a great vehicle on a holiday. |
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21st Feb 2024 10:09am |
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| steveww Member Since: 05 Jan 2022 Location: Uppingham Posts: 571 
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The 6 speed box does not like to be rushed, a slight pause in neutral smooths the change.
When I fitted Optimil high flow wing vent, Nugget Stuff intake plumbing and did the air box modification, this significantly improved the throttle response and smoothed out the typical jerkiness. However, I agree with the previous comments. The Defender is not a sports car and nipping off the line is not something it does at all. |
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21st Feb 2024 10:13am |
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| lightning Member Since: 23 Apr 2009 Location: High Peak, Derbyshire Posts: 2867
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Well, today l've made the effort to have a proper drive in a Puma Defender (2016 90XS HT) and l have to say, l've changed my opinion.
This one drove lovely, don't know if it had been remapped but the engine was smooth with no jerkiness or throttle hold issues. The gearbox was slow but positive and totally in keeping with an old Defender. The engine has so much torque, well relatively speaking, making it a great companion on the road. (l didn't take it off road or try the low range) The heater was like a furnace (compared to a TD5) and the aircon actually cleared the screen. ln sixth gear it was at under 2,000 rpm on the motorway where my TD5 was around 3,000 at a similarly speed. l love the TD5 but take back a lot of what l said about the Puma being less user friendly. |
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21st Feb 2024 2:39pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4720 
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We have two 110 2.4 Pumas (2008, 2011) and a 1992 tdi 110 station wagon. The tdi was the family car from 1996 until 2008 when the first Puma came into the fold. My wife has never driven a "car". She learned to drive in the tdi and passed her driving test first time. She drove the Puma and decided it would be hers!
There is nothing "wrong" with a tdi 110, you just accept it and it makes a great all around family car. I fitted EXMOOR high back second row seats when the kids were young. The heater is good and you cannot overload it as a family car. Land Rover did things to the Puma yet still kept it a Defender. It is very quiet, the seats are great and still have the removable seat bases. Even the two rear seats in the seven seat 110 are good and there is still luggage space when they are in use. The engine is nice and the vehicle is great on a long journey. I do not find any down sides to it. The paint work on the two of ours still looks very well. The doors are good heavy doors unlike past efforts. The 2008 has had it's clutch replaced and starter motor but that is wear and tear. Both are still on their factory fitted output shafts. The 2008 has over 200,000 kms. Fair enough the 2011 falls into the dodgy axle weld category and has had the magic brackets fitted. The Puma is a wonderful drivable vehicle. The heater is very good. The 2008 has had to have the rear cross member attended to for the annual test (your MOT). It would have been nice if they had used higher grade metal for the chassis..Fair enough we have never owned a "car" so I am coming from a Land Rover back ground. How you judge the Puma will all depend on where you are coming from. The wife has been driving the 2008 since.we bought it in 2008 and loves it. She thought the world of the tdi but the Puma is so much more refined but still a Defender. Some will say if it does not have leaf springs it is not a real Land Rover. I beg to differ. I have a series 111 2.25 diesel so I can comment on this. There is no downsides to owning and using a Puma. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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21st Feb 2024 5:27pm |
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| Chicken Drumstick Member Since: 17 Aug 2020 Location: Near MK Posts: 755
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The simple answer is, why not? It isn't a tractor, it is a car as in automobile or auto carriage. You'd want to drive it quick for exactly the same reasons you'd want to drive any car quickly. Hence so many companies offering go faster bits and engine swaps. |
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21st Feb 2024 6:32pm |
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| Muddybigdog Member Since: 11 Apr 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 1023 
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New edition The Fusilier., now more G-wagon
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/ineos-autom...er_desktop Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200 Puma 90 XS - Sold D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold) Freelander 2 HSE - Sold Freelander 1 - Sold Disco 2 - Sold |
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23rd Feb 2024 2:47pm |
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| RFT Member Since: 13 Nov 2010 Location: Cheshire Posts: 682 
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I guess that did not consider Coldstream as JLR probably have a trademark registered in that name to describe the water that flows out of the footwell of a Puma. 130 Puma HCPU with an Artica 240LR Demountable Camper
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23rd Feb 2024 2:59pm |
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| Mr Fox Member Since: 10 Sep 2011 Location: green & pleasant land Posts: 1037 
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If the G-Wagon was designed and made in China  ...Chinese car companies seem to be the current masters of design barstewardisation and appropriation. |
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23rd Feb 2024 3:00pm |
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