 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Rear Axle offset |
 
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637   
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Hi folks,
i fitted the wheel spacers and new wheels from my old defender onto my new 07 Puma. my Left wheel seems to sit circa 2" further out than the right wheel, i.e its not symmetrical. Chassis seems true, no real witness marks as to having had a thump on the rear end, no rippling on the chassis either. Looking at the A-arms they are bolted to the crews feet and the member that they bolt to looks fine, again nothing to suggest that anything is out of true. I bought the truck as a private sale, bought as seen from a guy at work, so trustworthy. He also confirms it has not been involved in a crash. So, WTF, would the bulkhead be misaligned from factory? Truck drives great, would not think anything is wrong, just i noted the symmetry of the rear axle and started digging around the underside of the truck. The only thing I can see and it could be an optical illusion is that the springs seem to be leaning towards the sticking outside.. Worth mentioning that i have anti-roll bars, not that i would expect that to impact on this. Could worn bushes give this symptom? As far as I'm aware the a-arms define centrally the position of the axle with the trailing arms defining direction of the axle..... ps trailing arms don't look bent either - perplexing 
Cheers Andy |
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13th Dec 2016 11:02pm |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Thanks,
Have taken some photos of the trailing arm bushes and the a-frame bushes. I can get some movement the a-frame bushes on the crows feet, seems that they can move along the bolt by 2 or 3 mm or so. I could also get the trailing arms move fractionaly along the bolt that are attached to the axle (using a wee pry bar). Otherwise looks pretty tight, but maybe a combination wear?? O/S - Right hand rear Trailing arm bracket; [URL=]  Click image to enlarge[/URL] N/S - Left hand rear Trailing arm bracket [URL=] Click image to enlarge[/URL] N/S - Left hand rear A-frame crows feet [URL=] Click image to enlarge[/URL] Cheers Andy So hoping i haven't bought a problem :blub: Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  |
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14th Dec 2016 12:36am |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324 
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Being the first thing I read, I thought well, did you put both spacers in??  
I only introduced myself to the rear suspension recently, so I'm no expert, but unless I'm mistaken a set up of particularly worn bushes could result in something like this. A-frame to chassis, trailing arm to axle particularly spring to mind as they are the only constrained rotational joints (the others are more free for various reasons). But then the whole lot would move if you pushed the vehicle around, are you parked on the same slope each time you look at it? Could be wrong, interested to learn...  Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants... |
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14th Dec 2016 7:59am |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Hi,
Yeah, I know what you mean, but the fact the a-frame to chassis joints are angled means the they are going to try and naturally centre. I'm not sure how much movement in the bushes you should expect or whether they should be bar tight. I have studied the rear chassis and noting looks wrong, maybe a combination of wear and the rear tub not square to the chassis in the first place? For the amount axle protruding you would expect to see something obvious.... Cheers Andy I |
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14th Dec 2016 8:56am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060  
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I'm no expert either, but read somewhere that the A frame arms are handed. If at some point it has been removed to rebush or to replace the central ball joint, could the two arms be accidentally swapped or the frame is flipped over? 2" offset is a lot. The fact that the springs are leaning, does suggest the A frame is the culprit. Do the ARB links show any offset to one side? 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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14th Dec 2016 9:33am |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Hi, yes the ARB links do look like they are leaning towards the side protruding.
So does make me wonder about the trailing arms...... The mounting points the arms show no witness marks of reworking or damage, and the rear quarter chassis looks square, for 2" offset you would expect to see a visibile deflection in the chassis if that was the issue same with witness marks due to rippling etc. Very confusing. Am tempted to buy a new trailing arm and ball joint set and fit, with a new bush kit, see what happens. Cheers Andy |
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14th Dec 2016 1:50pm |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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By trailing arms, I presume you mean the A frame arms. I cannot see how the trailing arms (which you show in your photos)?can have anything to do with the lateral position of the axle. That is defined alone by the A frame. Before you start buying parts, I suggest you check to see where the axle goes, when the A frame is disconnected.
With the rear of the vehicle on jack stands, and a jack supporting the axle, I would suggest you disconnect the A frame from the axle at the ball joint. With a little encouragement, the axle should find its own centre (helped by the springs and the ARB links). You will have to be very careful when doing so, as the axle my well be under tension, and will be unstable without the upper link disconnected. Safest done on a vehicle lift. Stephen 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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14th Dec 2016 2:41pm |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Hi, yes, sorry, wrong terminology.
I meant to say A-frame arms. Yes, a-frame holds axle with regards to offset, and trailing arms control rotation around the ball joint. Gut feel is that I have wear in the bushes and its contributing to the axle offset, maybe not wholly responsible, but certainly contributing. I might elect to get the garage to do the work on the truck, I have a good indie near me and if its too much work for me to do then I'll get them to do it. I'm keeping an eye on the rear axle tyre wear and looking for abnormal wear, I have fitted wrangler MTR to the rear, the old tyres showed no unusual wear (Grabbers AT2, I think), so only spacers are different. OR Everything is square and straight and its just the body being off centre and thus making it all look wrong!!!!! Cheers Andy |
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14th Dec 2016 6:59pm |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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I would have thought that a 1" offset of body to chassis would be visible from behind the vehicle, as the crossmember wouldnīt line up. However, on a Defender, anything is possible.
 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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15th Dec 2016 5:58am |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Yes agreed.
But body is bolted into the x-member tabs or angle that sits on the x-member ok. Thats what is confusing, everything looks ok, but something isn't..... Cheers Andy |
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15th Dec 2016 6:02am |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324
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They should move, obviously, but they should resist movement. So what to look out for is more movement that you can make that doesn't spring back (unless gravity and/or the springs helps it back). Did you try rocking it while observing? Might need two people! Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants... |
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15th Dec 2016 6:35am |
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| ROBBONTHEROCK Member Since: 23 Jun 2014 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 637
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Hi, no, i haven't.
I think i will jack up the rear axle and support it on axle stands from the chassis, leaving the axle to dangle free, and see whats going on. I think i'll measure the distance between the chassis rail and the a-frame ball joint and see if its central or offset? If offset then, next task will to confirm why...... if central, then has to be bushes or something bent.... Cheers Andy |
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15th Dec 2016 6:40am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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Additionally, your mention of the springs and ARB links being pushed to one side.....
A frame or the mountings of, on the chassis, or an incorrectly welded bracket on the axle.
Stephen 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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15th Dec 2016 6:44am |
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| agentmulder Member Since: 16 Apr 2016 Location: Outer Space Posts: 1324
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^^
... loose/damaged A-frame ball joint - something in that area, yes. You'll find it, but observation while under is required - keep in mind that while it might help to jack it up, there's just as much chance that jacking it up (and having everything under tension) might hide the cause. Solved the bowel problem, working on the consonants... |
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15th Dec 2016 6:48am |
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