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5wh

Member Since: 01 Jan 2011
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 37

2009 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

2009 SVX 90 KNOCKING ON COLD START

Hi all,new member here!

I have a 2009 SVX 90 done 7000 miles and during the v.cold weather we have recently had here in the UK(ie -15 degrees!),my car has made a knocking noise for the first 30 seconds or so after starting.Ive searched through some of the threads relating to knocking but now the temperature is a few degrees above freezing my car starts normally with no knocking sounds and all is well again.

Is this likely to be something or nothing(glow plug down etc),or will it need further investigation??The nearest decent dealer to me is around 60 miles away(there is one with a poor reputation about 15 miles away but I would not send my car there),so its a bit of a trek if its something that will wait until the next service. 2009 SVX 90 Station Wagon

1st Jan 2011 5:23pm

BBSJK

Member Since: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ledbury, Herefs
Posts: 100

1998 Defender 90 V8 Petrol 50th Auto Atlantis Blue

I had similar in the very cold but seamed to cure it by giving it a couple of goes on the preheat before starting.

jk No the other left . . .

1st Jan 2011 5:36pm

5wh

Member Since: 01 Jan 2011
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 37

Yes I gave it a couple of blasts of the glow plugs and that helped a little(the glow plug light seems to stay on a long time by modern standards),but even so the knocking was still there,just not as bad. 2009 SVX 90 Station Wagon

1st Jan 2011 5:45pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

Hi 5wh and welcome to the forum, is this your first diesel engine

The reason I ask is that all the diesels I have owned over the past 25 years tended to knock when cold! Things are worst nowadays with low sulphur diesel taking away the one lubricant that was present for lubricating the injectors and pump (sulphur). There are many lines of thought on how to combat this problem mine being using 2 stroke oil in a 1:300 mix directly into the fuel tank every time I fill up to using an additive every 6000 miles or so. I also use fortec diesel treatment and an engine oil change every 6 months to help the longevity of the engine and fuel system. As long as your levels are ok I wouldn't worry about it as 7000mls for a diesel is nothing. It isn't even run in yet. This forum has an excellent search facility providing answers from people far more expert in all things Defender and the answers you seek are buried there

1st Jan 2011 5:49pm

dgardel

Member Since: 30 Nov 2008
Location: Veneto (Heart & Head)
Posts: 3586

Put 600-700cc of GOOD SYNTHETIC 2 STROKE oil before to make a full of fuel.........

then report to me.........

it is vital fluid for the common rail system..... Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition

IID Pro MV License

1st Jan 2011 8:51pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

dgardel wrote:

Put 600-700cc of GOOD SYNTHETIC 2 STROKE oil before to make a full of fuel.........

then report to me.........

it is vital fluid for the common rail system.....
__

_______
For the first treatment I agree, but are you saying to put this much in long term or as a one off

I use basic motil 2stroke mineral oil from site sponsors OPIE OILS and find this ideal as per the advice from the freelander site. However I do have about 10litres of fully synthetic 2 Stroke in the garage for my outboard engines and didn't want to use it as it was of a high spec which isn't needed in the addition of diesel in my puma

What's the best advice Danielle

1st Jan 2011 9:04pm

dgardel

Member Since: 30 Nov 2008
Location: Veneto (Heart & Head)
Posts: 3586

Synthetic is better than mineral because it remove the "laquers" on injectors produced by the "cooking" of the ashes.

Personally i add 2 stroke oil every 3-4 full of fuel during winter and every 2-3 during summer (more temp stress) Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition

IID Pro MV License

1st Jan 2011 9:38pm

BBSJK

Member Since: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ledbury, Herefs
Posts: 100

Never bothered changing the oil type. Interestingly the Citroen I run up and down the motorway has an 'auto' glow plug. Never seen it activate until it was showing -16 on the dash. Slight bit of knocking when it started. Christmas morning it showed -5 and didn't bother with any heat or knock.

jk No the other left . . .

1st Jan 2011 11:27pm

sasha2001

Member Since: 02 Jan 2009
Location: New Zealand+ russia
Posts: 206

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Tonga Green

Happy New Year from New Zealand, there has been talk here of using two stroke oil etc in the Puma engine but people here are wondering if it would damage the injectors as they are so small in the Puma engine rail
Any thoughts on this really really appreciated

Simon

2nd Jan 2011 4:04am

Alexke

Member Since: 03 Jan 2011
Location: Antwerp
Posts: 113

Few things I want to share with you all

The Puma has a common rail system , which means that fuel its pressurized at around 1600bar
Common rail systems dont inject 1 time per stroke , multiple times actualy so it´s cleaner and most of the time more silently

I think that if you crank your engine without any preheat , the little pre-injection sprays do not combust properly and will create a knock noise.

now i know that the Puma´s preheat system works as follow :

when The engine head Temp sensor detects that the engine is under +-3c it will : preheat longer , and the glow sticks stay on a few seconds when the engine is running. to minimize those pesky emissions and optimize combustion .

so I just let it preheat properly when my external temp is under 10c
when its under 1 degree c i let it heat up twice .
and when its really cold even 3 times.

My Puma already has been to the dealer for new injectors !

if your puma still knocks after 1 minute ... take it to the dealer and complain

My Dealer said at first , its normal its a diesel... I said that it didn't do it before ... but they kept saying it was normal ... they even said it was because i used Total Diesel Excelcium, with the Puma

But then : my Puma was getting louder and louder . more smoky and beginning to act really weird .
it was shaking at idle , if you drove with it and used your engine brake it would stutter...

clearly signs of a

injector

in the end i wrote an e-mail to Land Rover Be-lux with my issues and then they solved it and they gave me an extra year of warranty on my engine

tough , i would also be careful adding anything other then normal diesel in it , i heard some oils damage seals

feel free to correct me

just my 2 cents

3rd Jan 2011 8:58pm

dgardel

Member Since: 30 Nov 2008
Location: Veneto (Heart & Head)
Posts: 3586

Alexke wrote:
Few things I want to share with you all

The Puma has a common rail system , which means that fuel its pressurized at around 1600bar

1600 bar at maximum rpm and power.

normally it work along a 350 - 1600 bar depending from rpm and power request (Throttle position)

Quote:
Common rail systems dont inject 1 time per stroke , multiple times actualy so it´s cleaner and most of the time more silently

5 times on FoMoCo Puma common rail

Quote:
I think that if you crank your engine without any preheat , the little pre-injection sprays do not combust properly and will create a knock noise.

now i know that the Puma´s preheat system works as follow :

when The engine head Temp sensor detects that the engine is under +-3c it will : preheat longer , and the glow sticks stay on a few seconds when the engine is running. to minimize those pesky emissions and optimize combustion .

so I just let it preheat properly when my external temp is under 10c
when its under 1 degree c i let it heat up twice .
and when its really cold even 3 times.

OVERVIEW
The 2.4 liter diesel engine is equipped with a high-pressure common rail fuel injection system. With this fuel injection
process, a high-pressure fuel pump delivers a uniform level of pressure to a shared fuel rail (also known as a
common rail), which serves all 4 fuel injectors. Pressure is controlled to the optimum level for smooth operation, up to
a pressure of 1600 bar.
The system supports a pre-injection (pilot) phase, which reduces combustion noise and mechanical load.
Fuel injection pressure is generated independently of engine speed and fuel injection events. The fuel injection timing
and volume are calculated by the Engine Control Module (ECM), which then energizes the appropriate solenoid
actuated injector.
The common rail fuel injection system has the following features:
􀁺 High fuel injection pressures of up to 1600 bar for greater atomisation of fuel (increasing performance and
lowering emissions)
􀁺 Variable injection to optimise combustion in all engine operating conditions
􀁺 Low tolerances and high precision throughout the life of the system

The fuel system is divided into 2 sub systems:
􀁺 Low-pressure system
􀁺 High-pressure system

The LP system features the following components:
􀁺 Transfer pump (located in the high-pressure pump)
􀁺 Fuel filter
􀁺 Fuel cooler

The HP system features the following components:
􀁺 High-pressure fuel pump
􀁺 Fuel rail
􀁺 High-pressure fuel pipes
􀁺 Injectors

Quote:
My Puma already has been to the dealer for new injectors !

if your puma still knocks after 1 minute ... take it to the dealer and complain

My Dealer said at first , its normal its a diesel... I said that it didn't do it before ... but they kept saying it was normal ... they even said it was because i used Total Diesel Excelcium, with the Puma

But then : my Puma was getting louder and louder . more smoky and beginning to act really weird .
it was shaking at idle , if you drove with it and used your engine brake it would stutter...

clearly signs of a injector

in the end i wrote an e-mail to Land Rover Be-lux with my issues and then they solved it and they gave me an extra year of warranty on my engine

tough , i would also be careful adding anything other then normal diesel in it , i heard some oils damage seals

feel free to correct me just my 2 cents

Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition

IID Pro MV License

3rd Jan 2011 9:35pm

Alexke

Member Since: 03 Jan 2011
Location: Antwerp
Posts: 113

Quote:
Low tolerances and high precision throughout the life of the system

yeah right...

3rd Jan 2011 9:56pm

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