 | Home > Technical > Hot, hot, hot.... |
 
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5836   
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OK, so the new 2.4 DC has been bought, the mods are slowly going on and I am generally loving it. It has a standard selections of rattles, no issues there. But there is one area I am concerned by. Heat. I noticed on the drive back from the UK that the cabin got very, very hot. I noticed it again last night when I was on an hour long motorway drive. Hot enough that if the heater was on you'd turn it off, and if it was high summer you'd open the windows or put on the AC.
I cannot for the life of me work out if the heater is stuck in the 'hot' position even if actually pointing at cold (it's very difficult to move) or if it's something else. Last night I did a test on the heater and turned it on, and directing it to the windscreen vents (away from where the heat seems to be coming from) and it was warm. Not hot, but warm, and not a great surprise for a Defender. Not too concerned. The heat seemed to be radiant and coming from the lower part of the footwell, so I popped my hand down there are noticed that there is a piece of metal between the front base of the gear knob/diff selector and the bottom of the plastic on the dash, that was very, very hot. Enough that it would make a good towel radiator. Also the handbrake was getting hot. Both this metal plate and the handbrake almost too hot to the touch. So it seemed to be radiant heat coming up from this location that was heating the cabin, not 'blown' hot air. I appreciate that the exhaust runs past the right hand side footwell, but this doesn't seem to be to do with that. It seems to be all located around this metal plate located near the gear selectors. Can anyone tell me what this is and why it would be getting so hot? Never noticed it on my 2.2 Puma, even last week when I did exactly the same 12hr drive home. One hot, one normal. Here's a photo, not my DC, and the location I am referring to is between the rubber base of the gear knob and the plastic dash where the gear selector diagrams are located. Any thoughts? Want to get it sorted before we hit summer, it will be unbearable.  Click image to enlarge Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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8th Jun 2016 8:34am |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971  
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Did you have any of the windows open? Mine stays cool to the touch down there right up until I open a window then pretty quickly the handbrake lever and the whole transmission tunnel become burning hot.
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8th Jun 2016 9:47am |
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| ian series 1 Member Since: 17 Nov 2014 Location: south Posts: 3127 
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My 2.4 has exactly the same symptoms,
I too turned my heater to cold, but it was already there so windows were opened! Can't help thinking it's just another "one of those Defender things"  80" 80" 86" 88" 90"
Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered. |
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8th Jun 2016 11:17am |
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| toby9946 Member Since: 23 Sep 2015 Location: Hampshire/London Posts: 96 
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I had a similar experience on the M40 last weekend.
Windows were open, blower set to cold but no aircon on and the transmission tunnel and seat box/cubby box base was warm to the touch through the carpet making the cabin feel like the heater was on. I had heard it was a defender trait and ambient temperatures have gone up so not too worried and will just keep an eye on it! -2015 Defender 90 XS Landmark- |
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8th Jun 2016 11:40am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17457 
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The area you have highlighted (the lower centre of the dash, between the gear levers and the gear-change-useage labels) is immediately in front of the heater box. It is normal for this to get worryingly hot but only if there is hot water flowing through the heater matrix. By "worrying hot" I mean too hot to touch, and hot enough to make you worry that the plastic may melt (although it doesn't seem to, fortunately).
If I have the heater on full in my 2.4, this area becomes too hot to touch. With the heater fully off, it doesn't warm up any more than any other parts of the dash. If yours is getting that hot with the heater off, I suspect that the heater valve in the pipework under the bonnet (near the bulkhead on the passenger side - a cheap looking but mega expensive bit of plastic tat) is not shutting off properly. If may be faulty, or it may be that the knob or cable is not right and is preventing full movement of the valve. It is likely that the footwell on the offside of the vehicle (and remember the term "offside" means the right hand side irrespective of which side of the road a car is driven on and which side the steering wheel is) will get hot on a standard vehicle, since it is in very close proximity to the exhaust and cat (on a 2.4) or the exhaust and cat/DPF (on a 2.2). I know from personal experience that de-catting a 2.4 significantly reduces footwell temperatures. |
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8th Jun 2016 11:58am |
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| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 917 
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On the air direction slider do you have it set to Re circulate or to fresh air in?
If the temp knob is turned to cold but the slider set to fresh air in, then with the window open it seems to pull hot air through the heater or so i have found anyway. moving the slider to recirculate seems to do the tick in stemming the roasted leg syndrome. |
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8th Jun 2016 12:43pm |
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| Paul55 Member Since: 03 Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere in my head! Posts: 511  
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"They all do that sir" was the reply from my dealer when I mentioned it, another Landrover trait to get used too
 Cogito ergo sum |
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8th Jun 2016 12:51pm |
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| o4dn Member Since: 08 Jan 2010 Location: South West Posts: 545 
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I don't think they all do that, mine certainly doesn't, not even when I took it to Andalusia last summer!... “A Land Rover immobilized is a moral defeat for the driver and bad publicity for the vehicle, […] it's up to you to do justice to your Land Rover!” - Land Rover Driving Technique.
-- 2009 2.4 Puma Defender 90 SW 1979 Land Rover Series 3 88" |
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8th Jun 2016 1:01pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5111  
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All my Defenders have done that and worse in the TDi models, it is something you have to live with, in fact in very hot weather I have to have the heater fan switch blowing cold air to cool my poor throbbing over heated feet. Although in the depths of winter its another story.
 For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..
http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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8th Jun 2016 1:51pm |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060 
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Gren, your mention of the temperature selection knob being difficult to move leads me to believe the valve isn't fully closing. It is more likely to be the Bowden cable than the valve itself, but check both. As Blackwof said, if the valve is closed, the matrix (respectively, the lower part of dash) should not heat up at all. Knowing my own current 2.2, the selector only needs to be a few degrees off the closed setting in order to get a vast amount of heat. I don't think it is a 2.4 specific issue. 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTs, Recaro CSs, anorak, wellingtons |
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8th Jun 2016 2:48pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5836
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Thank you all. Seems it is a 'Defender' thing if not all Defs. Certainly the 2.2 I had didn't suffer, but then again it had carpet. Also, I can't honestly say if it started/got worse/made no difference with the windows open as I drive regularly with them open anyway. Speed and time seemed to be the issue, as this morning's drive wasn't nearly as hot. Much shorter trips, much slower speed. Long, continuous and fast seems to really overheat the area concerned. So do we think that is heat from the gearbox, transmission, engine or drive shaft? Would more lube or oil make a difference? I wonder what difference could be made using some good quality heat-reflective insulation? Plus bunging some carpet on top? Anyone tried?
I knew of the issue with the Right Hand Side footwell and exhaust. Thanks Blackwolf for the top tip on decatting, may give it a go. Plus I intend to insulate the footwell. Mrs Grenadier used to suffer in the 2.2 which was LHD. And thanks WildCard for the tip on the heater. Given similar descriptions above to my issue, it will be interesting once I have taken a look to confirm whether it is related or not. But the switch certainly doesn't work properly so I'll have to give it a dig if only to get the vented air to wrk better. And Devon Rover, it has been on open rather than circulate. But again, I have heard that being an issue as well. But certainly, as per my post, it seems to be radiant heat that is causing the problem, and the blown air is just added mischief. I'll tackle it soon and drive more slowly for the time being. And use Mrs Gren's TT for motorway trips.. Will keep you all posted, thanks again.  Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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8th Jun 2016 4:28pm |
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| shaggydog Member Since: 12 Aug 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 3347 
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I wouldn't add more lube, check the levels yes but don't overfill as that can do far more harm than good.
Sounds more like your heater matrix isn't closing and your effectively getting a radiator of hot liquid going nowhere in the cabin space. Still haven't seen any photos of your new beast  Running Restoration Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/post323197.html#323197
Self confessed mileage hunter  |
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8th Jun 2016 7:10pm |
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| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5836
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Thanks Shaggy, will take a look.
Re the new DC, 90% there.... Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
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8th Jun 2016 7:52pm |
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| Sadi Member Since: 23 Jul 2015 Location: Windhoek Posts: 334  
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Is there some way you can block off the heater completely - as a test?
I don't know if the CAT is in the same place as the 2.2 - but that piece of equipment does get seriously hot. I bought a few rolls of motorcycle exhaust wrap - and wrapped from in front the rear muffler all the way till where the front exhaust turns upwards towards the CAT. Did it from back to the front to get the "fish scale" effect. Removed the middle section - as it was easier on a workbench. Removed the rear section - tip: remove the rear mudflap and decompress the coil spring with say a HiLift jack. Did the front part on the vehicle - to remove is a major exercise. Tip: soak wrap in luke-warm water and consider gloves and eye protection. Tightened the front and end parts with the "stretch" type tape. Had a definite decreased temperature in the area you describe. Big reason for doing it was to prevent grass fires when off-roading in the local environment. Hope this helps. |
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8th Jun 2016 8:03pm |
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