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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1581   
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I find this thread amazing. While many can give informed advice on the noise from a rusty drive shaft. What is your experiences and expertise of European politics. Both leave and remain state reasons like they are hard facts. I am simple and don't like change. I don't like not being able to buy a defender and I don't want anything else to change. Twice today once at a suppliers and once at a customers I've seen leave posters. All that did was annoy me, I don't want your views forced on me. I have not told my lads how to vote or tried to change their minds.
This forum is for defender talk and not politics. |
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17th Jun 2016 11:03pm |
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| integrale Member Since: 29 Oct 2015 Location: Auckland Posts: 77 
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^^^
"This forum is for defender talk and not politics". Completely agree. |
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17th Jun 2016 11:40pm |
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| lambert.the.farmer Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: harrogate Posts: 2006  
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You have a problem then because one thing that is certain is that which ever way this goes there will be change, be it us being subsumed into some Germany led super state or us finding our own path. To discuss these and all the other options with those whom have an other commonality is necessary as it broadens the perspective of the issue and opens up new avenues of thought that you as an individual can weigh against your own feelings on the subject. When the first of these poll topics was started way back when, I was happy to stay in but as it progressed arguments were raised that I had not considered nor really wanted to think about but being a fairly rational person open to suggestions I looked at these arguments and sought more information in the wider world and eventually changed my mind. Discussion on here and places like it is valid and indeed valuable. Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon. |
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18th Jun 2016 4:37am |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1581
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Just fed up with all the silly talk. I am happy to talk about eu all day. But most people are just insulting each other and giving no back up to their ideas. Lots of the comments on here and disco3 have made loose respect for certain members both leave and stay. Also why the silly names and not just leave and stay.
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18th Jun 2016 7:04am |
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| Birdy Member Since: 07 Oct 2011 Location: CĂ´te d'Azur Posts: 865  
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"the number of spoilt ballots is significantly increased"
Yes, but that too is a valid statement, i.e. "I am dissatisfied with ALL of the candidates/parties". My (German) mother-in-law once spoiled her voting slip in rather stronger terms. Not to be recommended in this country of course, where your numbered ballot paper is registered against your name, and easily identifiable. Yes, I've heard all the blah blah about "... only with a Magistrate's order" etc., but I personally wouldn't write anything incriminating on a voting slip! Peter |
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18th Jun 2016 8:40am |
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| nitram17 Member Since: 08 Jun 2014 Location: newcastle Posts: 2261 |
I didnt know that!I naivly thought that you registered the fact you turned up at the polling station but the ballot slip was free from identifying marks and they only checked the numbers of slips matched the numbers registered.... so the the powers that be can determine who voted which way from the ballot paper.....so its not a totally secret ballot........thats very scary!
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18th Jun 2016 9:37am |
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| Lost for Words Member Since: 18 Jun 2015 Location: Warminster, Wiltshire Posts: 200 |
It's very true, there is never anything that is a literal certainty in the future, however, with these decisions, the universal level of uncertainty that applies either way has to be stripped and once that is done, there are some things that are a certainty, and many others with varying degrees of possibility. We may not be able to guarentee that X or Y will happen, but we can compare the probabilities on both sides.
Well, I am a "liberal free market tory", and indeed I would love to see market forces brought into the NHS, BUT, and here's the catch, I recognise that this may not be possible to do in what I consider a satisfactory manner - i.e. retaining a service that is free at the point of use and doesn't require preparatory measures from, or financial strain on, any individuals. Apart from anything, leaving does not mean permanently or fully handing over the country to Boris, Gove, IDS, or Farage. Legislation still has to get through parlaiment, which will have the same MPs as before, and we will still have our elections where other parties can be voted in. The PM alone simply doesn't have the power to abolish the NHS. Despite my own views, I also see a left-wing case for leaving, and indeed there are various Labour MPs supporting the leave side, including the likes of Dennis Skinner. Leaving would offer greater flexibility in our own politics and indeed has support from all sorts of people as a result.  Visiting from DISCO3.CO.UK
Discovery 3 TDV6 Auto HSE Zambezi Silver  |
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18th Jun 2016 9:39am |
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| nitram17 Member Since: 08 Jun 2014 Location: newcastle Posts: 2261 |
The problem with spoilt ballots is that sometimes it can be done by mistake so a non of the above or abstain box would get my vote! |
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18th Jun 2016 10:24am |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5110  
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Dennis Skinner perhaps the only MP left of the old standards of labour, and to me one of the only politicians to have any balls. He is as you say a left wing MP. Now the labour party as a collective has come down on the remain side of this debate, strange for Corbyn has gone down on record time after time as being very anti EU, and his party seems to be using left wing rhetoric for remaining in the EU, as I see it no matter what workers’ rights are thrown at us by the labour grandees the EU is very right wing. Another labour argument is without the EU we would not have health and safety and I see that also as very week case. Dennis Skinner has said ‘My opposition from the very beginning has been on the lines that fighting capitalism state-by-state is hard enough. It's even harder when you're fighting it on the basis of eight states, 10 states and now 28. "What [the EU] should be doing, if it wanted to convince people like me, is have a directive to get rid of zero-hours contracts across the whole of the EU. That's what I'd be looking for." Simple ‘wants’, nonetheless they make sense to me. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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18th Jun 2016 11:06am |
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| Birdy Member Since: 07 Oct 2011 Location: CĂ´te d'Azur Posts: 865
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A lovely “fly-on-the-wall” anecdote relates to a meeting of the former European Democrat Group in London to discuss how they would vote at the next session of the European Parliament. The Tories ran a tight ship then, they'd debate and decide in private, then vote in the Assembly en bloc, giving them a formidable presence in European politics.
I can't remember the subject, but it was all a bit vague, and Lord Harmer Nicholls suggested they all abstain. But others were of the opinion that it would be used against them (“On this VERY important issue, the EDs have chosen to ignore it blah blah blah”). So the President of the Group interrupted the debate to put it to the vote as to whether or not abstention was a valid statement: “Those in favour, raise their hands; those against, raise their hands...”. Lord Harmer jumped up and said: “I abstain”, Sir James laughed: “Oh Harmer, you silly old fool” and they all carried on. The good old days when politicians were gentlemen… Peter |
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18th Jun 2016 11:52am |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5110
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The French politicians have been at it again today with their threats...
Emmanuel Macron France's economy minister said the EU should send "a very firm message" about the consequences of a British vote to leave the bloc. Leaving the European Union would make the UK as insignificant as Guernsey, France's economy minister has said. Emmanuel Macron told Le Monde newspaper that Britain would become ‘a little country on the world scale [that] would isolate itself... at Europe's border’. 'Britain would isolate itself and become a little trading post at Europe's border' he fortells Someone should remind ‘Emmanuel Macron’ that this little country’s army pulled his large country out of the crap twice and would do so again if need be whether we leave or remain. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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18th Jun 2016 5:55pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1581
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Don't mention the war, I did once but think I got away with it.
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18th Jun 2016 5:59pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5110
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 For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..
http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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18th Jun 2016 6:01pm |
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| seriesonenut Member Since: 19 Nov 2014 Location: Essex Posts: 1211
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I cant help thinking this is a' no win' situation. If we stay then that's a clear mandate and a slippery slope to full integration into a United States of Europe. If we go our own Government will 'punish us' for years to come as clearly this will all be our fault. However I do not like to be bullied and I do not respond well to threats and that's all the remain camp seems to to do.
We also will become an insignificant island like Guernsey according to a French Government Minister (if we leave). Well that's fine with me. I think the French (and a few others) underestimate our Island mentality and if we do go I think we will be just fine..... |
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18th Jun 2016 6:35pm |
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