 | Home > Technical > Clutch - MERDE!!!! |
 
|
|
|
| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5841   
|
Hello Def2 Chums. For those who've followed the tribulations of my clutch change, as we approach week three in workshops, so it continues. I have conducted myself with biblical levels of patience but I am close to reaching my wit's end. I have tried everything, but still, as recently as yesterday, we cannot get the clutch to engage Rev/1st and all the others continue to grate. So before I accuse my mechanic of being effing useless, or of suppliers fitting the wrong parts, can I raise yet another question or two?
First, having watched my mech re-strip the Def and access the bell housing the second time, from start to finish, from a layman's perspective all seemed good. Obviously access is the laborious bit and I ensured all was done properly. But can any mistakes be made when fitting the friction plate and cover? Likewise the release baring (we have tried the original supplied with the clutch and a new one)? If so, what might the mech have done? Can it be misaligned etc? Or is it fairly simple? (Please note that the hydraulic flow restrictor and spigot bush have not been replaced, if this makes a difference or should have been done?). Second, assuming all is good with assembly, can the supplier have supplied the wrong clutch plate and cover (kit) or are a 2.2 and 2.4 one and the same. My Def is on the threshold of the change between the two in 2011, so I am concerned it may be a 2.4 clutch kit, as opposed to 2.2, if there is such a thing? Any thoughts would be welcomed. I have attached a photo of the clutch and serial number, if that helps, and further have listed what we have done/replaced. If I cannot resolve it by Monday I will call it in as officially 'broken down' and take it to the stealers, 100km away, to take it apart and reassemble it. I need some facts before we head down there so that if it is a f*** up on the part of my mech, I know in advance. Likewise if it is the wrong kit. At the start I took it as merely a Land Rover 'niggle', now I think there is (has been) some inefficiency on the part of someone and I need to know whom. What has been done: Clutch removed and replaced with new AP Clutch Kit supplied by Ashcroft Transmission. New Release Baring (not OE, but also supplied by AT) fitted Reassembled System Bled No Rev/1st engagement, remainder difficult. Master Cylinder Replaced System Bled No Rev/1st engagement, remainder difficult. On advice from Ashcroft that it might be a twisted friction plate, the whole assembly was dismantled once more. Friction plate checked, appears to be clean, true and with no damage Second, new, release baring (OEM Supplied) fitted System bled No Rev/1st engagement, remainder difficult. Clutch pedal alignment checked. Seems to be according to manual. System Bled No Rev/1st engagement, remainder difficult. I cannot think of any further routes to follow bar those I have mentioned above. Either a bad mech who cannot fit the clutch properly, or incorrect parts. Any thoughts? What have I/he missed or done wrong. I am going nuts. 
Here's the part number:  Click image to enlarge Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
||
1st Apr 2016 8:03am |
|
| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5841
|
Thanks Uncas. No, all the other gears grate. Not one is smooth. When trying to engage first, which is impossible, the Def tries to creep forward. Pressure from the pedal (with appropriate levels of play) and the feed between the Master and Release baring looks good.
How do you misalign a clutch? Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
||
|
1st Apr 2016 8:26am |
|
| uncas Member Since: 22 Nov 2012 Location: Wentworth near Rotherham Posts: 340 
|
Daft question but are you sure that the clutch plate is fitted the right way round? Have you tried another pressure plate? In my haste many years ago I once fitted a clutch plate the wrong way round. What about the spigot bearing could that be causing the problem?
|
||
|
1st Apr 2016 8:39am |
|
| uncas Member Since: 22 Nov 2012 Location: Wentworth near Rotherham Posts: 340
|
DOHHHH double post
|
||
|
1st Apr 2016 8:40am |
|
| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5841
|
We double checked the plate's direction as there was a stamp on one side saying 'flywheel this way' or similar. As far as the spigot is concerned, it's not been touched and I didn't know what it was until an hour ago when I looked it up and watched it on Land Rover Tool Box. Should it have been done? Anyway of knowing without taking it apart again? Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
||
|
1st Apr 2016 8:42am |
|
| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018 
|
I wish you'd stick to the same thread and not start a new one every few days
Have you checked: 1. the flywheel friction area is clean and free of any deposits 2. flywheel is not warped 3. clutch cover is not warped |
||
|
1st Apr 2016 9:16am |
|
| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5841
|
Supacat, I wish i didn't have to post anything on this subject at all!!
(Maybe Martin can weave his magic and pull it all together....  )
Mech checked flywheel face and entire bell housing for cleanliness, grit, deposits, cracks etc. Friction plate and cover both clean and (by eye) true. Didn't check flywheel for warping, just the face and teeth. Prior to changing the clutch, the death rattle was evident (the actual reason for the change) but engagement was generally ok (was beginning to get a little difficult, but only in first and when cold) and there was no issue with running, noise, grating etc. Up and down through all gears. As a reminder, this is on a 60k (miles) 2.2l. Could the flywheel have been warped and everything else appear normal prior to replacement? Can it warp when replacing the clutch? Monsieur Le Grenadier I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
||
|
1st Apr 2016 9:30am |
|
| Devon-Rover Member Since: 22 Jan 2015 Location: South Devon Posts: 918 
|
Hi for the sake of repetition i'll fire some number at you.
Clutch kit LR048731 Earlier engines all supersede to the later ones. The Clutch hydraulics did have a change and this impacts on the bits used, so if you have a new slave/release bearing for the first time then you need a couple other bits to go with them. LR068979 is the slave cylinder and when you use this one for the first time you must then use: LR068981 Adaptor and Lr068982 Valve These two part go with the new release bearing or issues could occur. The Spigot bearing is indeed a bearing and should be ok with a tickle of grease. but normal caveat says to check for wear or roughness. |
||
|
1st Apr 2016 9:53am |
|
| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
|
I'm only thinking that if you have ruled everything else out then what are you left with?
After that it's back to the beginning again - and check hydraulic system for full range of normal movement. |
||
|
1st Apr 2016 9:58am |
|
| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5841
|
Thanks Devon, I'll get those extra parts and pop 'em in. Does this require access to the bell housing or is it between the release baring arm and Master?
As far as range of hydraulic movement, will check once again once the above have been added. It will be the most new, highly spec'd and useless clutch system on any Defender in the world.... Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
||
|
1st Apr 2016 10:10am |
|
| Cetane Member Since: 27 Nov 2012 Location: Lancashire Posts: 171 
|
I've only skip read through this thread but....
Have you had a look at the spigot bearing in the flywheel? (Think LR calls it a "Pilot bearing") We had a similar issue on a race car, turned out someone had wound the gearbox up to the engine on the studs because it wouldn't locate properly. Because of this, the nose of the input shaft went in slightly cocked and the spigot bearing got munched. Net result was constant drive (of sorts) and some very hot bearings in the back of the box. It's a long shot I know, but it would seem you've tried everything else. HTH Cetane |
||
|
1st Apr 2016 10:26am |
|
| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5841
|
Thanks Cetane. Yes, having watched the LR Toolbox video, I did wonder as well. Will certainly check it if we have to open her up up again. Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
||
|
1st Apr 2016 10:29am |
|
| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6308  
|
I had my master cylinder replaced recently and since I've not had the feeling of the clutch dragging when changing gears.
are you sure you're master cylinder is fully functional? |
||
|
1st Apr 2016 1:24pm |
|
| Grenadier Member Since: 23 Jul 2014 Location: The foot of Mont Blanc... Posts: 5841
|
Brand new. Obviously it (and all the new parts) could have been badly fitted. I suppose that's the rub. I don't know enough about mechanics per se, let alone Def mechanics to know if my Mech is telling me the truth or otherwise about how eveyrthing has been fitted. I also don't know how much more different and difficult fitting a Defender clutch is over his stock of normal clients who here drive lots of Jap 4x4s (Forresters, Ravs etc) and vans such as Transporters and Traffics. Mine is the first Defender he has touched. Are they that much harder? Monsieur Le Grenadier
I've not been everywhere, but it's on my list..... 2011 Puma 110DC - Corris Grey |
||
|
1st Apr 2016 1:28pm |
|
|
|
| All times are GMT |
< Previous Topic | Next Topic > |
Posting Rules
|
Site Copyright © 2006-2025 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
