 | Home > Off Topic > The no Tax disc is a failure as huge losses mount up. |
 
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5110   
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Never mind bashing George, I hope you are joking.
As a chancellor, you have to obtain a fair financial balance that should treat the electorate all equal, maybe by allowing people to pay monthly for the road fund licence he is desperately trying to redress his biased unfair balance, (after all he lost the Works and Pension Secretary with a step to far on making the less well-off and disabled persons culpable in paying off the deficit) To my mind based on unarguable facts, the chancellor has repetitively made the poorer people of this country suffer in an unfair and unequalised balanced way. But coming as he does from a family wallpaper company that has made him a millionaire many times over I am sure he has no idea what the majority of this countries people go through on a daily basis, saying that personally I think that the man because of his intelligence probably does, however, he is in my mind the type of person who really does not care. Perhaps if his constituency was not the affluent Tatton but instead in a less prosperous electorate canton he would have learned some humility, but of course for the Tory elite that will never happen. Remember that the good people of Tatton not that long ago voted out another shady Tory, Hamilton, it would be very good for the people of this country if they did the same with Osbourne at the next election. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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7th Jun 2016 7:43pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5110
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There are no good old days anymore at the Manchester DVLA office as it closed quite a few years ago and to be fair if you attended that office not at the beginning off the month but part way through it the waiting times were negligible. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at..
http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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7th Jun 2016 8:32pm |
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| chasthechippie Member Since: 15 Aug 2014 Location: Cheshire Posts: 59 
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Anyway can we agree that the headline at the start of this thread is incorrect and should read
The no tax disc rule has allowed people to spread their payments over 12 months resulting in a time delay of revenue to the DVLA |
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7th Jun 2016 10:00pm |
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| gilarion Member Since: 05 Dec 2013 Location: Wales Posts: 5110
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If the discrepancy was down to monthly repayments then by month six the figures would also include all of the six months part revenue.
What made this a news story was that with all revenue counted in the new systems first period the income was down. If what you say about people whose income is low being able to pay monthly to account for the shortfall then those same people would I guess only have bought a six months road fund licence in the old system. That is why the N.A.O.and the treasury I would presume waited a full six months before audit. For those who like Welsh Mountains and narrow boats have a look at my videos and photos at.. http://www.youtube.com/user/conwy1 |
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8th Jun 2016 11:07am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17386  
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Can you explain to me you reasoning? In simplistic terms, it seems to me that if I have (say) 12 people each of whom buys a 12-month tax disk on the first of a month, one per month, then I get 12 months' worth of income on the first of each month. If each person then changes over to pay monthly, I will, after the transition period, still get 12 times 1 month of income each month, so exactly the same. I agree that in practice there will be more vehicles taxed in some months than others, and not everyone will change from annually/6-monthly to monthly, so there will be fluctuations and perturbations, but overall HMG should still in a 12-month period get exactly the same income as before. The only way I can see your theory holding true is if we're seeing a £200M fluctuation, in which case the the next six months would have to show a £200M increase of previous years, something I feel is unlikely. |
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8th Jun 2016 12:12pm |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888 
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Not really, no, there would still be people who would normally have taxed for 6 months renewing monthly all the way through the first 5-6 months of the new system. Those that had bought a 6 month tax disk immediately prior to the changeover, for example, would then only pay 1 month's tax by the end of the sampled period rather then the 6 months tax they would otherwise have paid. Those that bought 2 months before the changeover would have paid 2 months instead of 6 by the end of the same period and so on.
It will take over a year for an accurate assessment, especially given that there were also major changes to the way cars are sold, meaning that those who are selling cars are far more likely now to reclaim tax paid and if that is included in the headline figure that could also have a knock on effect on revenues. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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8th Jun 2016 1:11pm |
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| JJ Member Since: 18 May 2009 Location: Winchester Posts: 932 
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The data in the original article that is being banded about only covers the 1st 6 months from the switch over so the figures are skewed and the article doesn't properly explain that . There is a vague reference from the AA spokesperson.
"It's not surprising payments have fallen and ironically the change was supposed to save money. "It looks like it will work itself out but there are still many people who are not familiar with the new system." The article is playing with statistics for political purposes , you are right that if the subsequent 6 months also show a drop then that is different. HR064 Hampshire and Berkshire 4x4 Response |
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8th Jun 2016 1:12pm |
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| chasthechippie Member Since: 15 Aug 2014 Location: Cheshire Posts: 59
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Many thanks for those informed explanations. Facts are what matter not grabbing headlines
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8th Jun 2016 3:23pm |
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816  
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Not necessarily. Could be organized easily same as here in Switzerland. In short.... You get the normal invitation to present your car for the MOT inspection by a certain date. You miss that date, first get a reminder within a week, if you ignore that again the Inspection Bureau relays that information to the car registration office. The car registration office sends you notice that within days you have to send them back your number plates. Your insurance company will also be informed that your registration is cancelled. If you do not deliver your number plates, next you get a visit at home from police who will confiscate your number plates, and all costs of cancellation, police intervention costs, etc. are for your account. And amount of such invoice would be a shocker. Pragmatically simples, and the system works very well. 
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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9th Jun 2016 3:24am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20376
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I don't see it's right that some doing 80k a year pay the same as someone like me who does 5 - 10k a year.
It should be in my opinion, the more you use it the more you pay. ( with in reason) |
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9th Jun 2016 9:52am |
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| couplands Member Since: 31 Aug 2011 Location: Peak District & Cornwall Posts: 1826 
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^^^^ agree, plus if you have a few cars, but only drive one at once, it means you only pay when you drive.
Of course, its a "tax" rather than to fund roads so if it doesn't come from our cars it will have to come from somewhere else...;-( cheers simon |
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9th Jun 2016 10:13am |
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| davew Member Since: 02 Jan 2012 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 888
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You seem to forget how much tax is already on fuel ? If you include VAT then for every litre of fuel you buy you pay just over 60% in tax. If you were to average 25MPG that's 1820 litres of fuel per year for 10k miles or 14550 litres for the mythical person doing 80k If you, for ease of calculation, assume that you can average £1 per litre (which is probably unlikely, especially if you're paying motorway prices) then your mythical 80k driver is paying £8730 a year in fuel tax whereas you at 10k a year are paying £1092 a year in fuel tax. So, the guy doing 80k a year is paying over £7500 in tax more than you and you feel it's unfair that the £200-400 you pay for a virtual tax disk is too much because Mr 80k isn't paying enough, even though he's already paying 8 times the amount you pay ? You do realise that IF you were to give the government the excuse to add RFL onto fuel duty they'd almost certainly add another 25-30% on and then of course you'd be paying VAT on that too. You'd then end up paying for Mr 80k's additional tax burden through the inflation that a sudden increase in fuel duty of that magnitude would result in and the additional costs we'd all end up paying for goods to be delivered. http://www.yorkshireoffroadclub.net/ |
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9th Jun 2016 11:45am |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581
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We send goods out via different methods, from Royal Mail, Parcel Force and different couriers With the couriers which we have accounts with we are charged a basic charge plus a FUEL SURCHARGE. This fuel surcharge is based on the AA average fuel price. So add RFL, plus extra VAT onto fuel costs our carriage costs goes up. No prizes for guessing what we will have to do with this extra cost. Brendan |
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9th Jun 2016 12:43pm |
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| nitram17 Member Since: 08 Jun 2014 Location: newcastle Posts: 2261 |
The loss will be from zero tax or low tax cars as we'll......that will change in 2017......tax on fuel appears fair but someone could by 50 gallons of fuel and divide it up between three cars (with 2other drivers) I know you would still get the same tax but it could make congestion worse as you could have three cars on the road instead of one even if it's for a shorter period! |
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9th Jun 2016 1:01pm |
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