 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > Metal A-Bars Legal in Germany for on-road travel??? |
 
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816   
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Not for the Puma, that's for sure. It would have to have an E mark, which doubt very much any metal bull bars would have. Believe that for the Puma only the soft A-bar with an E-mark is acceptable in Europe today.
Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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18th Apr 2016 2:30am |
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| VeeTee Member Since: 06 Mar 2011 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1512 
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From May 25, 2007 EU Regulations forbid the use of metal A-Bars. If your vehicle is from before that date, you could still fit a metal A-Bar saying it was there all the time...
However, on vehicles from after that date only soft A-Bars are allowed. Cheers, Vincent 1959 Polynorm 1/4 Ton Trailer, Olive Drab Green (sold) 1970 M416 Military Trailer (Camping Trailer Conversion), Epsom Green (sold) 1975 Series III 88 V6, Light Green (sadly sold) 1996 Defender 110 CSW 300 Tdi, Epsom Green (sold) 2000 Freelander 1 TD4 3-drs, Silver (sold) 2006 Freelander 1 TD4 5-drs Facelift Automatic, Tonga Green (sold) MySite |
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18th Apr 2016 6:32am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060  
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Wot VT said
The rules are pretty unclear, and some seem to find loopholes. How an extended bumper with 50 kg of winch can be less dangerous to a pedestrian, I do not know. 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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18th Apr 2016 7:48am |
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| tookaphotoof Member Since: 18 Mar 2013 Location: dordrecht Posts: 1279 
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Inform the right person and they will even forbid that option!
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18th Apr 2016 8:46am |
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| VeeTee Member Since: 06 Mar 2011 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1512
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^ @tookaphotoof: Common knowledge... Cheers, Vincent
1959 Polynorm 1/4 Ton Trailer, Olive Drab Green (sold) 1970 M416 Military Trailer (Camping Trailer Conversion), Epsom Green (sold) 1975 Series III 88 V6, Light Green (sadly sold) 1996 Defender 110 CSW 300 Tdi, Epsom Green (sold) 2000 Freelander 1 TD4 3-drs, Silver (sold) 2006 Freelander 1 TD4 5-drs Facelift Automatic, Tonga Green (sold) MySite |
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18th Apr 2016 11:26am |
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| Likeomg Member Since: 29 Jun 2012 Location: Lake District / Newcastle Posts: 2638 
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how to the g waggon's get around it?
seen plenty on german plates with metal bull bars..? |
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18th Apr 2016 11:30am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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Exactly! When it comes to regulations, money talks..... 1998 Tdi 90 SW,
2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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18th Apr 2016 12:41pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8580 
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The way that it was explained to me in the UK was that a metal A bar was considered to be part of FPS or Frontal Protection System and that this was banned after the relevant date
A winch bumper is not considered to be Frontal Protection System but a winch mount system which is legal. Now how the standard metal bumper on a Defender is legal I do not know. Reading an English google translation of the Nakatanenga website it would appear that winch bumpers need to be registered in Germany. However local knowledge is best knowledge Brendan |
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18th Apr 2016 8:49pm |
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| expatRob Member Since: 24 Feb 2015 Location: Frankfurt Posts: 58  
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Thank you all for the great response. The group is great.
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18th Apr 2016 8:52pm |
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| shaggydog Member Since: 12 Aug 2012 Location: Kent Posts: 3347 
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So if I was to say mount an ARB style winch bumper with a winch (preferably hydraulic), in the UK it would be legal.
But if I drove into Germany, had some fine beer, food, nice rest, hearty breakfast and then drove home (assuming I was sober to do so) my defender would have technically been illegal the whole time it was there even though it was just visiting? Or is it only for vehicles registered in Germany? Running Restoration Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/post323197.html#323197 Self confessed mileage hunter  |
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18th Apr 2016 8:59pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20299
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Why should a dangerous implement in the wrong hands be legal on the same A bar and without not?
A bars provide a spotlight mount too which is purposeful as is a winch. HGV's, even brand new ones I've seen with stainless bull bars much like the Aus and Kiwi road train trucks! Especially Scania's. And also EU trucks over here from various country's, oh and of course various coloured lights that if you or I was to have we'd be screwed over for it. How can you have E markings on items that need repair or re-paint too. Throw a bumper out because you can't see the 'E' mark any more? 
How do they even know if it's a fake 'E' marking numbers or not, could just be copied. Just some of these stupid EU laws that serve no purpose! Many defy logic and practicality. Rant over. |
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18th Apr 2016 9:03pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8580
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Again, the way it was explained to me was that if your vehicle is road legal in the country of registration then it it is legal as a visiting vehicle in Europe.
In mainland Europe it is a legal requirement that trailers and caravans etc have their own vehicle registration plates and documents (Auto passport) However in the UK for UK registered vehicle it is only a legal requirement for a trailer to have the same number plate as the towing vehicle. If you get stopped by the German police/Austrian customs who demand the Auto passport of your trailer, the look of bemusement of seeing the same registration plate on trailer and car is worth beholding. Now when a German policeman examines an official UK V5 with lots of information missing such as GVW etc etc they normally give up in their quest to try and find something wrong. DISCLAIMER I am not a legal eagle on various European legal requirements. Now the idea of caravan, trailers etc having their own registration documents does have a certain appeal. Brendan |
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19th Apr 2016 8:31am |
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| Mash Member Since: 09 Feb 2015 Location: Guernsey Posts: 1674  
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I know that my TRC winch bumper for my D3 had been inspected and Tüv approved prior to them selling any. 90 wolf - Jasmin http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic39408.html
90 V8 - Maggie http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic42564.html 110 TD5 - Buggsy http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic59029.html 52HG25 lightweight https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic72342.html D3 Hse - Fiona Capri 2l S - Anna Think I might have a problem............ |
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19th Apr 2016 8:44am |
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| Wild Card 90 Member Since: 03 Dec 2014 Location: Gerlingen Posts: 1060
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That pretty much sums it up. If your vehicle is MOT'd, taxed and insured in the UK, you are fine. The only additional requirement, if you enter any emission zones (larger towns and all cities) is that you have an emission sticker on the windscreen. A green one denotes that your vehicle fulfills at least Euro 4, and allows you into the zone any time. Older vehicles have a problem, unless they are deemed an "Oldtimer" . The threshold is 30 years, and German registered vehicles then show a H (historic) as last suffix on the registration plate. Obviously the UK plate system doesn't show a vehicles age, and vanity plates make it impossible to judge. They don't stop and check you on the way into towns, and the Germans still don't have anything like the amount of camera surveillance that you find in the UK. For that reason, you should carry some sort of vehicle paperwork when travelling in mainland Europe. At least a copy of V5, insurance and MOT certifcates is a help. The German police deal with visiting motorists in a very civil and courteous manner. Most likely they are more generous than with locals. Living here, it is the Swiss police, you have to be careful with. Zero tolerance, concerning speeding and any other motoring issues. 1998 Tdi 90 SW, 2008 Td4 90 SW, 2012 2.2 90 SW, 2" raised Trailmaster/Terrafirma Heavy Track Raids, 255 MTīs, Recaro CSīs, anorak, wellingtons |
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19th Apr 2016 10:13am |
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