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Home > Technical > 1995 300tdi 110 weird starting issue.

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24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167

1995 300tdi 110 weird starting issue. Hi all, I have a wierd starting issue with my '95 300tdi 110. Current symptoms are that with less than about a third a tank of diesel in, it takes ages to start after being left overnight. Once started it'll fire up on the button all day until left overnight again. With any more than a third of a tank it'll start first time no problem even after being left standing for a few days. This all seems to have started last summer when I noticed a small leak from the fuel sender pipe. I stupidly overtightened it and broke the plastic joint/union where the pipe meets the sender (side mounted type). I replaced the sender and then got myself into a seemingly endless cycle of fuel related problems which resulted in a new fuel cut-off solenoid, new spill rail+banjo bolts, new fuel filter, new lift pump (delphi), a second new sender and a new filler cap (this time with the valve in it as the other one didn't have one). Each of these seemed to address and fix a new problem. I'm guessing this latest issue is air/pressure related or maybe a weak lift pump but tbh I have no clue apart from the fact that when I loosen the bleed bolt on the fuel filter it doesn't spurt out diesel as it does with a full tank. There's nothing obvious jumping out at me - I don't see any leaks and as I've now got a full tank the problem has temporarily gone away. I park nose-down on a bit of a hill so I don't know if gravity plays any part in this but then that's probably irrelevant as I parked in the same place before the problems started anyway... Any ideas or suggestions for when I next get down to a 1/3 of a tank again? Many thanks, Andy...

3rd Jan 2016 2:55pm

grafty99 Member Since: 15 Aug 2012 Location: North Devon Posts: 4786	Have you tried bleeding with the manual pump under the injector pump? 2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon 1990 Vogue SE Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200 Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
3rd Jan 2016 3:42pm

24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167

Hi Grafty99, Is that the same as priming it with the lift pump and the filter bleed screw slackened? If so, I've tried that and I think it works, until I next leave it standing overnight. TBH it's difficult to know whether fiddling with things like the pump etc. are temporarily resolving it or not - nothing I've tried is a permanent fix and as it's only the difference between turning it over for an extra 30 seconds it's hard to know. Once it's running it'll fire first time all day after that. Cheers, AndyO... Cheers, Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com

3rd Jan 2016 4:05pm

grafty99 Member Since: 15 Aug 2012 Location: North Devon Posts: 4786	Yes same procedure. I would have said keep bleeding, there must be air in there somwhere  2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon 1990 Vogue SE Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200 Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton
3rd Jan 2016 5:32pm

24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167	so, air must be getting in somewhere right? and, i guess a full tank means less air...which could be why it starts no problem with a full tank... Cheers, Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com
3rd Jan 2016 5:40pm

LRmud Member Since: 22 Oct 2014 Location: IV12 Highland Posts: 198	^^^or air getting in to the line between the lift pump and the tank, allowing fuel to drain back to the tank, i.e. not staying primed. Maybe replace the tube from fuel tank to pump? Best of luck  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1989 Defender 90 Toyota Aygo & Honda FR-V
3rd Jan 2016 5:44pm

24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167	right, consensus seems to be air somewhere....probably between the tank and the fuel pump. i did have a real hard job getting a good seal where the sender meets the tank but that was showing itself as a leak and seems to have gone now. i'll recheck the fuel line in the day light. cheers for your help guys Andy... Cheers, Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com
3rd Jan 2016 6:08pm

Stevetucker Member Since: 30 Dec 2015 Location: Somerset Posts: 7	On my 95 discovery the fuel seemed to syphon back over night I fitted a non return valve on the inlet near the injector pump and all was well again
3rd Jan 2016 6:35pm

g-mack Member Since: 07 Jan 2014 Location: northumberland Posts: 1967	remember your not necessarily looking for signs of fuel! get underneath it with engine running then have someone switch it off, listen very carefully for hissing!!! My 109 thread my youtube channel
3rd Jan 2016 6:56pm

Retroanaconda Member Since: 04 Jan 2012 Location: Scotland Posts: 2656	The leak-off pipes along the head (between injectors) can be bad for perishing or coming loose at the banjo bolts, this then let's air in and you get trouble starting after sitting for a while.
3rd Jan 2016 7:06pm

grafty99 Member Since: 15 Aug 2012 Location: North Devon Posts: 4786

When the tank is over a third full, there is less fuel 'pulling' on the column of fuel in the pipe from the tank to the pump. When the tank is low it has more of a pull on the fuel in the pipe and therefore puts enough negative pressure on the pipe (read joint / union etc) to introduce air into the system. Because of the viscous nature of diesel and the fact that there is next to no pressure in the system it may not show as a outward fuel leak but rather an inward air leak as the fuel in the tank creates a vacuum  2002 90 Td5 Station Wagon 1990 Vogue SE Triumph Tiger Explorer 1200 Td5 90 Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic50767.html Tdi 110 Thread https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic69562.html RRC Thread http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54492.html Instagram http://www.instagram.com/george_grafton

3rd Jan 2016 7:09pm

24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167

thanks all, this is a great help @stevetucker - cheers for that - someone else mentioned the same a while back - my thinking was that in an ideal setup it shouldn't be required and that something is causing it or is this a good thing to install anyway...? @g-mack - good info, well worth a try - i'll give it a go. @Retroanaconda - thanks, I did have a definite leak there and replaced the rail and banjos. @Grafty99 - that's interesting info. this all started last summer with a leak at the union - I broke it by overtightening the nut and had to change the sender. First time I changed it I couldn't get a good seal where the sender meets the tank and the pipe union itself - i put it down to poor quality aftermarket parts and bought a genuine one (Ha! which turned out to be identical btw ). So, I might well have gone 360 degress and come back to the first problem...(?) Cheers, Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com

3rd Jan 2016 7:45pm

LRmud Member Since: 22 Oct 2014 Location: IV12 Highland Posts: 198	Any update? Sorted? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1989 Defender 90 Toyota Aygo & Honda FR-V
6th Jan 2016 3:10pm

AJC Member Since: 30 Nov 2015 Location: Lancashire Posts: 1364	Sounds to me like there is air getting in/out out the fuel line and draining the line of diesel over night
6th Jan 2016 4:37pm

24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167	@LRmud sorry m8, i need to wait till i use some fuel up and the weather improves a bit - maybe the weekend. Cheers, Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com
6th Jan 2016 6:32pm

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