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| SailingTom Member Since: 19 Nov 2013 Location: ESSEX Posts: 1720  
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Looks good
Visually the front is horrendous in my eyes. Saying that When Defenders first came out I'd of probably said the same, so could come round to it and certainly wouldnt change it. Just my initial impression. I like the current extra cab pickups which are 2 seater with 2 small foldup rear seats for occasional use. Could be an idea for this with the overall size? I like the idea of GRP being used aswell, but why not carbon fibre then? |
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20th Apr 2015 8:34pm |
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| Cuthbert Member Since: 26 Oct 2013 Location: Up North Posts: 1535 |
Britain produces truly world-class designers - consider the output of RCA graduates currently gracing senior positions around the globe and delivering jaw-droppingly attractive cars that folk will pay a hefty premium for.
I'll wager this proposal is the work of a basic technician with little visual awareness but a mountain of enthusiasm - it's certainly not going to be a design award winning vehicle or become a design icon. A functional and technically impressive product doesn't by default have to be that unattractive. Do your research and consider the number of British companies who have tried and failed to 'break the mould' when it comes to innovating (not inventing) new automotive products. Put that proposal in front of sophisticated and design aware consumers in Germany, Italy, Scandinavia and I'd wager they will think this is the output of a visual illiterate. Completely at a loss as to who the target customer would be and how many of them would want to buy that over existing and far more interesting looking vehicles. If you are seriously proposing to develop a Joe Public version of this - go and employ a half decent designer. I like the modular concept but the visual execution is crass. |
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20th Apr 2015 8:45pm |
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| jezhermer Member Since: 30 Mar 2015 Location: Dorset Posts: 49
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Cuthbert,
Thanks for taking the time and effort to provide your feedback. Much appreciated. Not correct in your assumptions about our designers.. But.. As I said.. It's all subjective and, importantly, iterative. |
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20th Apr 2015 8:53pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610 
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It will be interesting to see how you can 'adapt' the concept of an armoured vehicle and make it driver and pedestrian friendly to meet legislation, after all those were contributing factors to the demise of the current vehicle most of us love on here. I also like the idea of the modular theme, most of all and perhaps the best selling points would be it's capability and affordability for people such as us.......
From little acorns.........  If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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20th Apr 2015 9:08pm |
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| jezhermer Member Since: 30 Mar 2015 Location: Dorset Posts: 49
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Until we're building more than 500 a year we'll have no problem with legislation. We'll cross that bridge if and when we ever get to it..
In reality... Jaguar Land Rover could easily have solved the issues with homologation legislation... the fact is... they didn't want to.. preferring instead to use the European 'legislation' bogeyman as the simple way to kill DEFENDER off... It really is that simple.. They have / had no intention of continuing with it.. and it's easier to blame an institution like the EU than take responsibility themselves. So far all the vehicles we've submitted fro type approval have sailed through... |
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20th Apr 2015 9:14pm |
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| PCA42 Member Since: 15 Jun 2014 Location: Church Stretton Posts: 468  
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I think it's a great piece of kit, and I expect it fills a gap in the market place that other vehicles can't. The fact it'll put up with a hell of a lot of abuse and has some proper sized engines is a huge advantage.
However, if a model was to be produced for civilian/domestic use, I kind of agree with what a lot of people have already said about being 'American', from the photographs I have seen it is very large and on par size wise with F150s and the like? It would work in the US, but personally I think it would be too big for the UK market. Knowing that the way it is constructed means you can't make it smaller, I think the way to go would be to make a 'mini' version of it, i.e. Hilux/Amarok size, or ideally Defender sized as I think there is a place for a vehicle that size as it fits down lanes easily unlike Hiluxs, Disco 4s etc, and is easily maneuverable and easy to place on the road. If it was built with similar 'heavy dutyness' and reliability in mind, but at price that wasn't astronomical, I think it would do well.
What's the job with licensing on the Crossways? Can you drive it on a normal car license? Pete 2010 Discovery 4 GS TDV6 1972 Series III 88" 2.25P |
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20th Apr 2015 9:32pm |
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| jezhermer Member Since: 30 Mar 2015 Location: Dorset Posts: 49
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PCA42,
thanks a lot.... all good points... yes - it is a big beast... but then it's designed to take a 3.5 tonne payload! It can be driven on a standard license if we plate it to 3.5 tonnes... which would obviously restrict the payload when on public roads... but off road of course you could load it up to 5.5 tonnes. But if we plate it to 5.5 tonnes - then a B1licence would be required.... |
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20th Apr 2015 9:37pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436  
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2cents
from your website: "...... One thing you can be sure of is that this is not an SUV. The OVIK design team has produced a vehicle whose style befits its rugged, no-nonsense attitude. Wherever you meet a Crossway, there's no doubting that it means business. From the imposing front-end styling to the special-to-purpose body, everything about Crossway shouts 'business'. This machine certainly isn't designed for the school run" the pickup design here does not represent this to my opinion and tries to blend in with the current line up of pickups, part US style but it could as well be the next Nissan navara.We have enough of these available already. You have a very nice pickup on your site, what is wrong with that one? Strive chassis and spec too heavy? make a crossway civil version in normal size and specs, a baby baby vik but in all aspects a crossway. but please don't do away with the style. Nothing utilitarian out there anymore, while i am sure some people like it / search for it. I would also not underestimate the power of recognition, once viks will populate the streets/forces and be recognised by people you'll get people wanting to have one of those "at home". Don't we all like the fact our defenders can be seen as firefighting, army, camel trophy etc rugged vehicles, above the normal level! (still leak and break down but who cares) Same story with the Hummers and the reason for the H2 and H3 versions at the other side of the pond(i don't like them at all but they sold). the more i look at your vehicles the more i like them and i can assure you my first reaction to the pics in the 600HP tread were not positive at all to your efforts and visions, keep ideating! |
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20th Apr 2015 9:39pm |
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| jezhermer Member Since: 30 Mar 2015 Location: Dorset Posts: 49
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tatra 805... brilliant input matey... thanks..
yep, yep, yep... totally agree with you... This is an exercise to see where the boundaries are... We knew it would be controversial...but I want this to keep running anyway.... We all believe in the utilitarian, stripped back.. hard-as-nails...no nonsense design... but we also have to see where the boundaries lie. One thing we're NOT trying to do... is to replicate, reproduce or compete with Land Rover or Defender... This is a vehicle born of practical necessity... It's it's own vehicle.. NOW we just need to establish the boundaries... At the moment our vehicles are all hand built.. properly coach built... and (despite some comments) designed by a group of extremely talented designers... many with Land Rover... Range Rover - Evoque, Jaguar back grounds. One was even six years at TVR!!!! But the hand built nature means we remain expensive... bespoke almost... and does limit the design to an extent... |
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20th Apr 2015 9:49pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17322 
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Er, don't you mean C1, or of course C? |
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20th Apr 2015 10:19pm |
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| jezhermer Member Since: 30 Mar 2015 Location: Dorset Posts: 49
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Probably..
not my bag to be honest... And I've got a C+E so it does't affect me! |
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20th Apr 2015 10:36pm |
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| lambert.the.farmer Member Since: 11 Apr 2012 Location: harrogate Posts: 2006 
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Ok so some design input. I know in the other thread I was on about it having a demountable rear stock body but that would be for a bigger flat bed version. For me a working pickup should be able to squeeze in between a 6 foot gate even if you have to fold the mirrors, it should be not more than 4.5m long though shorter is better, the bed ought to be able to take a full size ibc water cube with room to spare for things like pumps and generators, if the cab was able to accommodate 2+2 that would be great but even if it were only 2 seater it could do with sufficient internal storage for coats and wellies and hand tools preferably in a full width covered and lockable internal box behind the seats. Other considerations would be the ability to tow large trailers and if possible keeping the unladen weight in the sub 1800 to 2000kg bracket. looks wise try to get away from the curvy curvy strong straight lines always look purposeful also strategic placement of holes, loops or cleats to tie things to it would be good not so much for load carrying but to be able to secure pen gates to when out in a field or for tethering animals to like a horse. Also materials for the panel that will stand being eaten and having various heavy things land on them without looking scruffy it 2 seconds flat.
That's for starters, I'm sure I will think of more. Rhubarb and custard let fly with their secret weapon. |
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21st Apr 2015 5:24am |
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| Cupboard Member Since: 21 Mar 2014 Location: Suffolk Posts: 2971 
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The pickup you've posted at the top looks to me like a Navara with a big chin. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want, but I'm not a fan of the stick-y out chin! Something solid at the corners is handy when you're using it as a mobile fence to block a route for cows or you've got the yard forklift stuck in a pothole and need a nudge.
I agree with a lot of what lambert.the.farmer said. I'm mostly going to use the Defender as a reference point because that's what I know. Would be good to be able to fit an IBC in, the Defender you can but it's a bit of a bodge because of where the wheel boxes are. Ditto a pallet, you sort of can in a Hi-Cap but it's not great. Payload, need to be able to put a bulk bag of sand in the back plus the driver and a few other bits and bobs, doesn't need to be much more than that. A Defender at 1.1t is about right IMO. As for the bed itself, it needs to be easy to clean out - the Defender is rubbish at that because it's got so many nooks and crannies. It's particularly bad where the ridges in the floor meet the front of the tub, and around where the spare wheel goes. As for the spare wheel, if you put it under the bed at the back it gets covered in crap and means you have a huge rear overhang. If you put it in the bed it's in the way. I suppose it could go underneath in the middle or something. Good luck with that one  The bed also needs to have somewhere to tie stuff too. When you've put your IBC in the back of a Defender, you end up having to run straps right round the sides on to the chassis. This looks silly and tends to squeeze the sides of the tub in. Tailgate: wide, option of flat out the back or flap down out of the way when open, doesn't bash the tow bar and get dented as soon as you buy it would be good.
Cab - your modular one looks like it has fixed windows? Need to be able to open the windows somehow! Space - options of single, 1.5 and double might be nice? The Defender pickup cab is very cramped for two people on a long journey. Yes you can do long journeys (I've done about 500 miles in our farm Hi-Cap with my boss), yes it can be massively improved. I like the under seat boxes as a convenient space to store stuff and expand the Defender. Want to stick some recovery stuff and jump leads there? You can. Extra battery and inverter? Check. You get my drift. Got two people and two dinner bags in a Hi-Cap? 
Hose down I'm not too worried about, but I am liable to blow it out with an air line. That's the sort of level I'd like. One of our staff has been known to pressure wash inside tractors but I think that's a bit extreme 
Size? Not too big! Standard car licence, reasonable turning circle for reversing a trailer, fits through gateways, 3.5t trailer. Price? This is the problem really. I know this isn't the market you're in, but if you were in it then for farmers the Ford Ranger and Defender are the right ball park. Obviously if it's demonstrably better then a bit of a premium is fine. No reason you shouldn't make the Fendt of pickups, but a Fendt is only about 10-20% more than a middle of the road tractor. Round us, farmers have Rangers and Defenders with the odd Hilux. Navaras are builders and lighter duty work. L200s are for people that have no sense as far as I can tell and are definitely not for work! I haven't seen an Amarok. |
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21st Apr 2015 12:32pm |
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| steve E Member Since: 06 Mar 2011 Location: Tenby Posts: 2073 
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Can you please make me an Ovik camper.
I really like the original you already make and would love to see, as already mentioned a smaller version of it. I wish you well with your new design Steve |
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21st Apr 2015 1:47pm |
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