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| sparkylee Member Since: 06 Nov 2010 Location: surrey Posts: 1455  
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Yes fella
Pm me It's good to be back from the dark side DC110 -2012 Black with black hood and black x-tech FFRR 4.2 vogue Renault traffic auto PT crusier convertible Laika x700 Motorhome |
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9th Feb 2013 1:14pm |
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| kingofthesparks Member Since: 06 Jan 2011 Location: Very close to Watford gap services , northants Posts: 987  
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Been out to a job today , 10mm 4core swa, this is a single phase ring, all sockets on one leg , length of run is approx 120 mtrs so the ring would be double that, at each socket the cable steps down to 6 or 4 mm can't isolate today to get a better look, I can see why they have done it this way, cheap fix to get round volt drop over a great distance but is it right ?
Steve |
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9th Feb 2013 1:18pm |
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| noworries4x4 Member Since: 24 Dec 2010 Location: Newton Abbot Devon Posts: 1195 
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When you say socket on single phase are we just talking 13amp wall or 32Amp commando type, just sounds to me like someone has used 4 core as that was what they had to hand, any reason it has to be in a ring instead of a spur or are there many sockets ? At this point i can't see any thing wrong just a bit over the top as long as the insulation and fittings are all good no problems, not what any one would call a standard install but you should see some of the site temps i come across, hideous lash ups. If everything is under control you are not going fast enough.
Every Day 16 MY Discovery 4 Commercial Workshop and Escort Vehicle Weekends 07MY L322 TDV8 Vogue SE Series 1 80" 3ltr 6cyl with overdrive No Worries 4X4 |
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9th Feb 2013 2:31pm |
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| me@td5.org Member Since: 16 Jan 2011 Location: Warwick Posts: 856 
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No particular issue with it. Stepping down in size is fine as long as it's not below the minimum required for the current (2.5mm)
is it a ring of cable or are they achieving the ring by using one of the other cores as a return path? |
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9th Feb 2013 2:33pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610 
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Depends on the potential current draw on the individual sockets and the power consumption of the ring. 10mm cable is obviously heavy duty, dependant on how it's run single phase rating for the circuit would be 46 to 65 amps. Whereas where they've reduced the cable size down to 4mm the individual socket rating would not be allowed to exceed 26-37 amps (dependant on how you interpret the rules) 'diversity' also gets thrown in to the mix dependant on equipment type being supplied perhaps.
 If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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9th Feb 2013 2:47pm |
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| kingofthesparks Member Since: 06 Jan 2011 Location: Very close to Watford gap services , northants Posts: 987
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They have used the 10mm swa because of volt drop I assume. Install looks original, they feed around 10 double sockets, the sockets are in the ring but only wired in 4mm so it basically goes from 10mm to4mm back to 10mm at each socket, there is a box above each socket because obviously you can't connect two 10mm swa into a double met clad socket , the other leg of the ring is continuous .
I need to add 8 double sockets in dado trunking and also several lights and this is the only circuit near by |
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9th Feb 2013 3:14pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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Easiest possible solution is to split the ring and connect yours in series. Alternatively you could spur off the ring with a radial and protect it with it's own breaker. Just 'bouncing' a couple of ideas that may help perhaps? If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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9th Feb 2013 3:46pm |
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| kingofthesparks Member Since: 06 Jan 2011 Location: Very close to Watford gap services , northants Posts: 987
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Was thinking of breaking into this ring, but will have to do minor works certificate for it and sign it, just unsure if the current circuit breaks any regs , as far as I can see its safe, it tests ok for insulation, loop etc, the smallest cable size is protected by the mcb , its just unconventional hence does not look right! But then again lollipop circuits use to look wrong and unconventional yet they are approved as a conventional circuit nowadays. |
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9th Feb 2013 4:09pm |
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| sparkylee Member Since: 06 Nov 2010 Location: surrey Posts: 1455
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Yep all sounds ok break ring and drop in new part
Might not look great but would all seam ok It's good to be back from the dark side DC110 -2012 Black with black hood and black x-tech FFRR 4.2 vogue Renault traffic auto PT crusier convertible Laika x700 Motorhome |
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9th Feb 2013 4:16pm |
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| K9F Member Since: 12 Nov 2009 Location: Bournemouth Posts: 9610
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As mentioned it sounds as though the installer used what was to hand. Apart from the testing the major key issue of 'Is it safe?' has been covered by the MCB. Seems fine to me too! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!
Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!! |
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9th Feb 2013 4:51pm |
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| kingofthesparks Member Since: 06 Jan 2011 Location: Very close to Watford gap services , northants Posts: 987
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Not sure he used what was to hand as the install looks very tidy, think it was designed like that so they could terminate into sockets. Shame they never sleeved or taped the yellow as live , and the blue as neutral !, to have red and yellow both live as the two legs and blue and black both as the neutral legs looks a little confusing, going to ring the tech helpline at napit Monday just to be double sure they are happy for me to alter and certificate for it, but as we all seem to agree although its not conventional it's safe , tests ok , and is protected by mcb, just want to be sure it complies with all regs , will label/sleeve or tape wires the correct colour, will look a bit odd putting two cable sizes on the paperwork though
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9th Feb 2013 6:02pm |
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| Nick T Member Since: 29 May 2011 Location: Bolton Posts: 203 
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I wonder how many sparks have had a belt since the harmonized colours came into effect. I've been in the industrial game for 25 years. R Y B are still second nature. I've had brown cable that looks red/marroon and grey that looks pink! Changing colours-sheer madness in my book.
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9th Feb 2013 7:17pm |
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| sparkylee Member Since: 06 Nov 2010 Location: surrey Posts: 1455
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As I see it the real problems will be in 20 yrs when we that used RYB+N are all dead and buried and a newbie comes across them and doesn't have a clue
 It's good to be back from the dark side
DC110 -2012 Black with black hood and black x-tech FFRR 4.2 vogue Renault traffic auto PT crusier convertible Laika x700 Motorhome |
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9th Feb 2013 8:02pm |
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| noworries4x4 Member Since: 24 Dec 2010 Location: Newton Abbot Devon Posts: 1195
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I actually have it scrawled on my tool box red yellow blue with lines down to Brown black grey blue or the even newer euopean machines that i get grey grey grey black ??? WTF !
My very old Martingdale phase tester still has red yellow and blue lights kinda cool i know what it means If everything is under control you are not going fast enough. Every Day 16 MY Discovery 4 Commercial Workshop and Escort Vehicle Weekends 07MY L322 TDV8 Vogue SE Series 1 80" 3ltr 6cyl with overdrive No Worries 4X4 |
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9th Feb 2013 11:07pm |
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