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| Surrey Rover Member Since: 20 Dec 2010 Location: Surrey Posts: 360  |
I have always been interested in this subject, perhaps Party Monkey can add some colour here. From memory I have seen many listings confirming the loss of a Defender with Stoplock/Discklock and GPS trackers. I have yet to see one listed with a clutch claw but don't take that as conclusive.
Happily I have read about Defenders that have been recovered due to the fact the owner had a tracker fitted, I have sadly seen some written about that had the tracker removed and the box thrown in a hedge! Nick 2.2 110 Tipper |
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6th Sep 2012 11:26am |
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| Sticky Member Since: 07 Dec 2008 Location: Derbyshire Posts: 245  
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I have done lots of research on this and asked everyone who was prepared to talk about it.
Not everyone is comfortable talking about ways to defeat security on an open forum. From what I can glean, the older Defender's are the easiest to overcome, but the new ones aren't a lot better when it comes to security. I think you have to assume the standard alarm is so easy to get round, as to be no deterrent, they can snip the wires to the standard alarm sounder from outside easily and can deal with the flashing lights. The ignition lock can be dealt with in a number of ways and the immobiliser is simple to deal with as well, the entire assembly can be removed in less than 10 seconds!! So in effect you have no alarm and no immobiliser. Because these thieves come armed with heavy tools don't expect a reasonable amount of force to be used against disk-locks and pedal locks. I have spoken to a couple of Policemen, who are on a stolen car taskforce who tell me they are merely a deterrent to an opportunist thief. If you get into trackers there seems to be a lot of different opinions as to what is the best system, they all have downsides, especially when it comes to where to install. From what I understand the more professional gang's target a selection of vehicles and study the risk, where the vehicles are kept, common usage patterns etc, they do a visual inspection of the vehicle to see what tools they need. This has all been captured on CCTV, they wear hoodies and aren't put off by video, it is worth noting if you have an alarm that lets you know when people have triggered it you can often have a clue to the fact that you vehicle has been targeted, a policeman I spoke to said that he had been to several locations where they had evidence of the attack before but it either had been ignored or hadn't been picked up at the time. When they attack they have look outs and often roll the vehicle away before attempting to start the vehicle, I understand the attack usually takes under five minutes! From what I have been told the thieves usually have a place to take the vehicle immediately, these are often remote location in thick woodland or barns that aren't frequently used and will cut down on trackers working. They then monitor the locations and may go back to search the usual locations for trackers, they can easily spot the tell tale wiring as these thieves are experienced with Defenders. I have replaced the immobiliser completely, I have installed a separate alarm system with multiple battery sounders, not in the usual locations, I have installed all of the different alarm deterrents anti tilt, microwave sensors, glass attack etc, I also use a pedal lock, I have two tracker systems and a dummy system. I have also sprayed smart water on every surface and I have installed Datatag RFID tags into virtually every high value panel and component. I am trying to find a company that does the paint UV marking like Datatag systems which is invisible to the eye but penetrates the paint layers. I think you could do all of this for about £500 but I spent a bit more as I was learning as I went along. There is a school of thought that says don't overly personalise your vehicle, or leave valuables in it and get great insurance. Last edited by Sticky on 6th Sep 2012 4:55pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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6th Sep 2012 4:52pm |
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| party monkey Member Since: 31 Dec 2010 Location: Oxon. Posts: 1311 
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Hopefully, the following link will work without anyone needing to log in to google docs
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/gform?...Id=1#chart It's not overly pretty but it's summary of all the LandyWatch data collected based on WHAT'S POSTED on LandyWatch (so please cross post anything you hear/see over on there too so we can make a more definative database  )
At time of writing, 150 entries, but 17 of them are attempted thefts or highlighted suspicious activity, so 133 thefts reported since Feb'11 (scratching surface I suspect) If you scroll down, you'll see a section on security features. The percentages will add up to more than 100, simple as some people may have multiple devices fitted, so ticking more than one box. With on my limited historical knowledge of what model has what factory security fitted, I do try to fill in some of the blanks. So an owner of say a late Td5 110 CSW won't post anything about security but I'll tick'factory alarm/immob' myself, as well as ticking 'poster yet to provide details'. Sadly, you can see from the data, that very few posts include the security measures employed on the truck. 81 instances out of 133 thefts... despite us asking for more info, we don't get many updates. 
More detail behind some of the figures..... -3 incidents reported where truck had a tracker fitted. Only 2 of these were thefts. One was an attempted theft, where the Disklok thwarted them. One of the tracker beaten thefts was a PUMA with an LR tracker fitted (Trackstar????). Tracker was discovered and ripped out.. - 2 indcidents where a pedal lock was beaten in the theft - One was reported to be a Clutch Claw. No brand mentioned on the other one. -12 incidents where a steering wheel lock was mentioned. Brands aren't often mentioned but I can see 2 diskloks and two stoploks mentioned as being beaten. Equally though, there are two attempted thefts thwarted by the Owners Disklok.... Overall, we do suffer from a lack of quality info when somebody posts details of a theft. Whilst I wouldn't wish anyone to have their truck pinched, I do hope that the lack of info posted on extra security is more a sign of the fact that there wasn't any, rather than just apathy of the poster Jon - 110 td5 [sold]. Currently Defenderless. |
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6th Sep 2012 4:53pm |
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| Killer90 Site Sponsor Member Since: 09 Oct 2011 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 6478  
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many get picked up off the ground
 best security park it front ways on the drive wheel full lock and get a removable steering wheel, then also get a shock sensitive alarm there well worth it as lr alarms dont detect if someones jacking your car up etc fit an x eng gear stick lock and make sure you leave it in gear as its easy to release the handbrake from underneath, then a pedal lock and some cut off swtiches jobs a gooden  CSK Automotive
www.cskautomotive.co.uk Like us on Facebook - www.facebook.com/csklr Follow us on Instagram - @cskautomotive |
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6th Sep 2012 4:58pm |
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| harveyg77 Member Since: 09 Apr 2010 Location: Derby Posts: 309
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Hi Sticky,
I had a 110 USW XS in 2010, but got shut as it was so much trouble. But I am seriously thinking of coming back to a Defender next financial year. I had a Tracker Horizon fitted and Smart Watered everything, but was not voerly impressed with its application of instructions. I would be very interested in having a look at your 110 and having a chat with you sometime. In the interests of 'security' you can have my name and address so if anything happens to your Defender you can send them to the Police 
Thanks Harvey |
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6th Sep 2012 6:36pm |
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| AndyS Member Since: 18 Aug 2012 Location: London Posts: 595 
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When I had my company name put on the side of the van i called the insurance company to let them know, my premium went down as they said they like highly personalised vehicles as people don't steal them because they're so recognisable and neutralising them is too much hassle. I think I read that Defenders with roof tents tend to be left alone, maybe for these reasons? What about wheel clamps? I've seen a few cars and caravans with them on. |
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6th Sep 2012 7:46pm |
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| SimonR Member Since: 28 Jun 2012 Location: Horsham, West Sussex Posts: 74
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This is something I've researched extensively over the last year - as my company were developing security products. I'm not going to use this post to promote them (don't worry Martin!), but just try to summarise what I've found.
Much of the research was through talking to Police Officers, Insurance companies and victims of thefts and attempted thefts. 80% of thefts are largely opportunistic, at least to the extent that said vehicle has not been specifically targeted. It was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and vulnerable. The remainder are targeted either for the specific vehicle or vehicle type. Only between 1 & 5% of the total are lifted or towed away. A few more percent are dragged off people's drive where the thieves are less likely to be disturbed or heard. This means that although there is little you can do about the vehicles which are stolen to order - Up to 80% of thefts 'could' be prevented with additional security. So far as the added security is concerned, as mentioned its biggest effect is the simple deterrent effect. There is also a case of diminishing returns in terms of the difficulty overcoming said device. For some reason, the key length of time appears to be about two minutes. A device which takes 4 mins to remove doesn't give you double the protection of one which takes two mins. Two mins seems to give the peak deterrant value. I guess if the thief has invested that amount of time, investing more seems more worthwhile if they have not been caught yet. However, two devices which take a given time to overcome, does appear to provide about double the deterrent. The upshot of this is that a device costing hundreds of pounds which you need a ray gun to remove, is only going to provide about the same deterrent as something cheap & simple. The conclusion that Law enforcement has come to is you need to adopt a layered approach with the number of layers proportional to the risk in that area. Some devices are obviously better than others, but if a vehicle is stolen, it's more an indication that the number of layers was insufficient than that the devices in question were inadequate themselves. There is a belief that trackers are worthless - but the statistics of recovered vehicles says different! Many people on Forums tell you that they are too easy to detect and too easy to Jam. Both are true, but if detected, it will have had a deterrent effect except in the cases where they are using a jammer. From the thieves point of view, the lowest risk strategy is to steal a vehicle, then leave it somewhere like a car park where it cannot be tied to the thief. If the vehicle vanishes, either it had a tracker or someone else has stolen it. One of my friends has had their 90 stolen twice in the last six months. Both times they found and recovered it thanks to a cheap, Chinese GPS tracker fitted with a PAYG sim card. Based on his experience, I bought one of the same type (A waterproof Motorcycle tracker with 5 day battery backup from a company called Deal Extreme on line). The most likely Defender to be stolen at the moment is a Td5 - but that may be down to the number on the road versus the price of the parts. Lastly, it is true that a distinctive vehicle is less likely to be targeted. It's more likely to be recognised than a plain standard vehicle. I'm not a fan of vehicles covered in stickers, but if it helps prevent it being stolen...... Si |
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6th Sep 2012 8:39pm |
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| 90TD5 Member Since: 04 Sep 2012 Location: London Posts: 13 
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Thanks Si/everyone. That is the kind of constructive input I was looking for.
It's a shame that trackers are now being overcome more but I guess you just have to get smarter with them. I have the Clutch Claw and Stop Lock so I guess I have done as much as I can! Handbrake tip was a nice one. I'll look to do that too going forward. S |
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7th Sep 2012 7:07am |
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| SimonR Member Since: 28 Jun 2012 Location: Horsham, West Sussex Posts: 74
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One bit I forgot to add. One thing common to virtually all thefts is the steering lock being broken!
There are two approaches to this. Either the lock barrel is removed/broken by force or the steering wheel is forced to rotate, breaking the steering lock itself. The latter is less common as there is a reasonable chance it will lock again when you are going round a corner! Most motor manufacturers changed the design of the barrel such that it was much more difficult to break / remove - but not Land Rover! On a Defender, you can break the barrel and start the vehicle with a screwdriver in seconds - thus the steering lock provides no protection whatsoever! I'm sure some enterprising company will come up with a way of affording it more protection sooner or later. I don't think there is much to call it between the different brands of security devices in terms of deterrent value and possibly removal. The big difference is how they fit in with you. Are they easy to fit and easy to store when not in use? For me, that's the biggest problem with a Disclock - having a giant metal Frisbee on the back seat is a sore head waiting to happen! One of the things that came up in the research was the number of people who buy a product, use it religiously for a few weeks then less and less until it goes to live in their shed because it's inconvenient to use or store in the vehicle. A product is worthless if it's in the shed when the vehicle is attacked! A few months ago, I talked to a chap outside Tesco who had just had his 110 stolen from the car park while he was inside buying his lunch! He said he had a pedal lock - but it was in the back because he was only going in for a few mins and it took too long to fit. In a way, I was pleased - as if it was fitted, they would probably have stolen my 110 instead! That's the clincher - by increasing the security you are just making YOUR Land Rover less likely to be stolen than the one down the road with less security. I would rather neither were stolen - but if one is going to vanish, I'd rather it be yours! Si |
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7th Sep 2012 7:56am |
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| twopoint6khz Member Since: 18 Aug 2011 Location: North Lakes Posts: 654 
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X-Eng have a steering column lock protector in the work by the looks of it - available late september.
Those gear lever protectors look like a good idea in terms of quick and convenient - maybe an answer to the 'nipping into the shops' problem. In that kind of scenario (a busy car park) a deterrent is likely to be enough I'd have thought. Do you know which model of GPS tracker the guy bought? There are lots on DX.com but they vary quite a bit in price, and of course the descriptions are terrible  |
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7th Sep 2012 8:14am |
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| SimonR Member Since: 28 Jun 2012 Location: Horsham, West Sussex Posts: 74
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This is the tracker I bought:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/gps-gsm-track...0mhz-54072 The manual is terrible! The worst Chinese to English translation - full of phrases like "Copulate the towering USB to cousin PC" Once you've decrypted it however, it's really easy! You can set it up to use GPRS Data or Text messages for control. GPRS via some unintelligible web site gives you real time tracking on a moving map. However GPRS coverage in the UK is poor outside cities whereas Text Messages work just about anywhere. You send it a text "669<4 digit password>" and it replies with a link to google maps (which works on an iPhone too) showing the position of the vehicle. You can set up an 'electronic fence' to cover for example the area the car normally drives - the journey to work and the supermarket say. If it goes outside the fence, it phones you (more likely to wake you up than a text). you then ask it where it is by text. You connect it to both the battery and ignition live. If the vehicle moves without the ignition live, it texts you saying it is being towed. If the battery live goes off, it texts to say so. If that happens, the internal battery seems to last about 4-5 days. I strongly advise you not to install it in the dash or headlining as they are the first places they will look! Since this unit is waterproof - it can go anywhere! Si |
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7th Sep 2012 8:46am |
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| Go Beyond Member Since: 30 Jan 2012 Location: Headcorn, Kent Posts: 6678
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If anyone wants to send a stamped addressed envelope to me I'll send you some FCX.ME.uk stickers to cover your vehicle in 
On a serious note though, I used to install vehicle alarms, back in the day, for a commercial vehicle alarm company and the problem with having an alarm fitted by 'professionals' is they fit the 'hidden' bits in the same places as they are doing the job day in day out - if at all possible you are better off fitting trackers etc yourself and using (a lot) of ingenuity in where you position them ... and despite what has been said by others, using fixings with a security head ie torx drive with centre pin etc certainly slows them down ! |
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7th Sep 2012 9:15am |
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| Dobby Member Since: 23 May 2012 Location: East Seaxe Posts: 187 |
I've seen quite a few clutch lock's fitted.. I've often thought those would be quite successful at slowing someone down.
http://www.mudstuff.co.uk/Meck_Lock.shtml Ultimately, all locks are just delaying tactics, the key is to delay long enough to deter. |
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7th Sep 2012 10:33am |
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| Surrey Rover Member Since: 20 Dec 2010 Location: Surrey Posts: 360 |
Dobby,
Do you know the success rates of these? I did consider fitting one but putting it on the brake like our Italian friends do. I appreciate that wouldn't stop it being lifted, but if you drove it off and the first time you applied the brakes it locked the pedal to the floor, I imagine it would cause some confusion. Nick 2.2 110 Tipper |
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7th Sep 2012 11:01am |
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