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XS Pete

Member Since: 13 Jan 2011
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 632

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

Good observations. However, I thought that the temperature control on the interior heater in a Defender directly altered the flow of hot water into the heater matrix. Therefore, installed as BP has, with the temperature control turned to minimum surely only the engine will be heated?

Pete

9th Aug 2012 12:47pm

tatra805

Member Since: 16 Aug 2011
Location: Dolany
Posts: 436

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Bonatti Grey

XS Pete

Your are right IF the temp control valve is a 2 way valve so it doesn't stop the flow if set on cold of the right hand side circuit in the diagram.

As pictured in the diagram it looks as if the valve would close off/regulate the complete flow through the heater matrix.

I am not sure but i think the valve on the puma is a 2 way valve, so basically the heater is installed in parallel with the heater matrix.

Will peek under the bonnet tonight to confirm this.

9th Aug 2012 12:54pm

dgardel

Member Since: 30 Nov 2008
Location: Veneto (Heart & Head)
Posts: 3586

XS, Tatra

the Webasto installation is depending from the car water circuit and it should change car by car.

The Defender cabin heater valve is a 3 way valve that means:

1. knob on BLUE - COLD: 100% of the water go through the valve directly to the engine block (0% to the cabin heater) 3 --> 4

2. knob on RED - WARM: 100% of the water go through the valve directly to the cabin heater (and then to the engine block) 3 --> 2 --> 1 --> 4

Click image to enlarge

Remember that the cabin heater pipeline carry only a part of the total flux of the cooling circuit

Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated

Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition

IID Pro MV License

9th Aug 2012 1:18pm

boode

Member Since: 11 Apr 2012
Location: Devon
Posts: 430

Re heating Cabin or Engine

My Thermotop C ( fitted without a one way valve) heats the engine up first.
It is only when the coolant temperature is warm enough - 48C I think - that the heater fan comes on to warm the cabin - I thought this was standard.
The cabin heater controls are set to Warm with the fan set to max, after about 30 mins of heating the engine the fan comes on.

I did not install the timer or remote - so I simply turned the webasto on as we woke in the morning, as we broke camp the engine was pre heated and the truck cab was warmed ( not hot as only a Td5 ).

This worked very well in Norway last year and the engine allways started easily.
I only needed to use the webasto whilst driving to maintain engine temp when it dropped down below minus 40C.

Last edited by boode on 9th Aug 2012 1:40pm. Edited 1 time in total

9th Aug 2012 1:29pm

dgardel

Member Since: 30 Nov 2008
Location: Veneto (Heart & Head)
Posts: 3586

tatra805 wrote:
BPMan,

......................

Most cars are done that way. But i found that at outside temps of -10 the cabin will take so much heat that the engine barely heats up. My 3.0 liter MB takes 1.5 hours to get to 40° water temp while the cabin is defrosted within 20 minutes.

It is not the Defender case: I tested. -22°C outside temp, water temp was 68°C after 30 mins of webasto operation (Defender engine OFF) with 15°C inside the cabin (mine is a 90 not a 110)

Remember that the Webasto ECU switch on the cabin fan only when the engine water reaches 48 °C

..............

You will also notice that once you start the car you will momentary cool down the interior while the engine heats up and thermostat opens.

Thats normal, I repeat with the webasto you carry only a little part of the water. Switched on the engine you move all the water mass but mine cool down only 5 - 6 °C

That’s another problem i experienced here as the engine would cool down from 40° and never reach normal operating temps when starting driving, the cooling capacity of the engine outperformed the webasto heater and eventually also the cabin started cooling down.

I installed the webasto parallel to the heater matrix (so from pt2 vertical down to the return line).

With the 3 way valve you have the same putting the cabin temp knob in the half

..............................
I found that this was a better protection for my engine, as the engine block would not cool down again. And even gave better cabin conditions although you don’t step into a 30° cabin when driving off.

I agree but in the case of the Defender the dgardel - Outback Engineering & BPman solutions works 100% perfectly!!!

If you want the 100% efficiency on engine heater operation it is sufficient to left the knob on BLUE.

But I tested well my solution (my father in love lives on the Alps and during the winter is normally to go less that -20 °C (less than -4 °F) Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition

IID Pro MV License

9th Aug 2012 1:32pm

dgardel

Member Since: 30 Nov 2008
Location: Veneto (Heart & Head)
Posts: 3586

boode wrote:
............
I only needed to use the webasto whilst driving to maintain engine temp when it dropped down below minus 40C.

Agree, the webasto is a "nice to have" into this conditions...........

other than a very good winter diesel.

Have you a heater on the fuel filter? Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition

IID Pro MV License

9th Aug 2012 1:39pm

boode

Member Since: 11 Apr 2012
Location: Devon
Posts: 430

Have you a heater on the fuel filter?[/quote]

No other pre heaters - just the webasto - also only a 4.2Kw but it worked well.
The TDCis needed breather pipe heaters, my Td5 did not.

9th Aug 2012 1:47pm

bpman

Member Since: 21 May 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 8069

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 SVX Station Wagon Santorini Black

Thanks all for your posts, especially the notes on the one way valve, I believe this is a good upgrade

My main reason for installing is to protect the engine on my forthcoming trip to nordkapp where -20/-40 temperatures can be expected

As Daniele shows it is possible to bypass the cabin heater radiator and when required this Is a perfect option for a tdci

I've also found a remote control kit so expect install photos soon

I am also fitting an air top cabin heater photos to follow - but not in a defender

(Marcus - before you say it, no not in my other tdci)

9th Aug 2012 4:59pm

d j hutton

Member Since: 30 Jul 2009
Location: Dorset
Posts: 1044

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Orkney Grey

Lets hope that all works nicely for you BPMan

Failing that I have some nice warm socks and a jumper you could borrow for your trip

DJ 1989 200tdi 90 csw
2011 110 usw Orkney grey

Buy British 🇬🇧

Defender Clothing Designs available at http://www.rangesports.com/acatalog/Defender-Stuff.html

9th Aug 2012 5:27pm

tatra805

Member Since: 16 Aug 2011
Location: Dolany
Posts: 436

Thanks for all the explanation and first hand experiences, seems my worries are not necessary in this case.

Like this forum.

9th Aug 2012 7:41pm

bpman

Member Since: 21 May 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 8069

I bought an eberspacher d2 from the bay, 12 months old and less than 1/2 price ... happy days. I built a test rig this afternoon and have been testing it, started first time. Waiting for housing to be made now, pics to follow.

Tested my coleman lantern today, works fine, mantels are quite delicate

(Good job I bought 16 spares)

18th Aug 2012 5:11pm

T1G UP

Member Since: 08 Dec 2009
Location: Bath
Posts: 3101

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Orkney Grey

for the roof tent....not the fesser?!

i've got my eye on a webasto for mine.

there are v, p, c, ,e z, and evo 4, evo 5 and evo 5+!

so i got my eye on a cheapway of doing this

25th Aug 2012 9:02pm

Landlord

Member Since: 27 Oct 2009
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 582

bpman wrote:
Tested my coleman lantern today, works fine, mantels are quite delicate (Good job I bought 16 spares)

Swear by a Vapalux. Great paraffin lamp, have used for years but like bpman i carry a load of spare mantels.
A good condition lamp is hard to find but have just found this on eBay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vapalux-Hurrican...2949wt_982

Worth grabbing one whilst you can. Give off 1 kw of heat and are a lovely comfy light when camping. 2007 TD5 90 Hard Top

25th Aug 2012 9:40pm

bpman

Member Since: 21 May 2008
Location: Oslo
Posts: 8069

good find landlord ... have you tried these lamps in extreme cold weather, I guess with Nordic additives they won't wax ?

25th Aug 2012 10:08pm

Landlord

Member Since: 27 Oct 2009
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 582

Not extreme cold weather but they are MOD kit.

I take mine every where and has worked well. Spares are still available and mantels are interchangeable with Tilley lamps. Tried Tilley lamps, there ok but the Vapalux are much better.

Have not tried Coleman lamps, presume theyre just as good..

Apologise for hijacking thread

2007 TD5 90 Hard Top

25th Aug 2012 10:17pm

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