 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Routing Winch Cables To The rear! |
 
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It's unlikely but there will be a hell of a lot of strain on everything. I presume it has a remote control from the pics but the strap coming back could still be damaging.
| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581  
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Hi Zag
Anderson SB175 connectors would be good for this type of work. 35mm2 cable is more then man enough for this work. Single cables (IIRC) rated at 240 amps continuous, twin flex 35mm2 cable is down rated to 180 amps. We have 35mm2 cable going to our Warn 9.5 winches. Which way to route cable? Now dependent on how you have your 110 set up I would be very tempted to route the cable inside the vehicle. You could either run cable from the battery to an Anderson connector mounted just inside the rear door on wheel arch. OR alternative idea and one which in many ways will be easier to do is to mount an Anderson connector here  Click image to enlarge All you need then is an extension lead with an Anderson plug on either end If you want you could fit an 100 amp isolator between the batter box connector and the battery. Definitely need a rubber cap over the end. Yes you will have a permanent live feed to it without an isolator. Just ensure you put good grommets on 35mm2 cable otherwise any passenger might start to get a warm bottom!! To avoid that sort of problem it is possible to mount the SB 175 connector so it comes out of the battery box and cable remains inside box If you need any help getting the bits and pieces give me a yell as we have the odd bit of cable/connector/isolator kicking around somewhere 
One advantage of doing this is you can get jump leads with Anderson connectors on from your friendly forum sponsor as well. So you can do jump starts without removing seat etc.
Electric compressor, 12 volt drill etc can also just be plugged in. HTH Brendan Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated  |
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13th Nov 2011 3:44pm |
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| sense of adventure Member Since: 11 Nov 2011 Location: warwickshire Posts: 147 
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you will need to go to www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk
you will need:- isolator switch marine midi in line fuse pair of anderson connectors black and red cable there ref is 196 25mm(min) square cross section (make sure you get the anderson connectors to fit the cable you buy) solder blow torch heat shrink tubing the fit the cable you buy ring connectors to fit the cable you buy grease p clips to fit the cable you buy cable ties tek screws for p clips any thing else i remember i will add later |
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13th Nov 2011 3:52pm |
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| Romadog Member Since: 07 Jul 2011 Location: Powys Posts: 1749 |
Yes Anderson plugs
I ran a positive cable along top of chassis rail from battery, using conduit where it rubbed brackets and I zip tied it. This ended at the tow bar in the anderson plug and a negative cable ran from that plug to one of the towbar bolts. Between battery and poitive cable was a bank of solid fuses to protect if winch was overloaded or cabling shorted out. A lead with + and - cables was made longenough from winch on trailer to rear of Land Rover. Protective caps on plugs is a necessity to make sure connections stay clean. |
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13th Nov 2011 4:35pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581
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Zag, I forgot to ask what is possible current draw on your winch?
A typical Champion 8,000 lb winch can pull a current up to 300 amps. Current draw can be seen HERE OK if your boat is floating free on water and trailer in water you would use minimal current draw. However if your boat is sat on a mud bank and wanting recovering onto trailer I do not know what forces are involved but would expect current draw to be high. Safety? Good 4x4 winch practise would apply. People out of danger zone defined by length of cable out. Damper/winch blanket/sling etc over cable. If boat stuck on mud use a snatch block. Check security of recovery point. Have no idea how you would do that. Big spreader plate etc. Fuses? Midi fuses go typically up to 100 amps, mega fuses go up to 250 amps. Max current draw of your winch?? 25mm2 cable from VWP rated at 170 amps is £5.11 + VAT or £6.13/metre 35mm2 from us, rated at 240 amps is £6.50/metre Anderson connector on your winch power lead, 35mm2 extension lead with anderson connector either end. Get a set of 35mm2 jump leads with Anderson connector on and job is a good one 
Alternative way of mounting an Anderson connector on battery box is like this
Tends to keep Anderson connectors clean and dry. Much cleaner and drier then one mounted outside vehicle. Also avoids risk of cables being chafed/abraded somewhere unseen under vehicle. OK long external leads will provide a possible trip hazard
Anderson SB 175 are rated at continuous 175 amps or a 1,000 amps for up to 5 seconds IIRC 35mm2 cable at 30% duty cycle is 400 amps. If you want any leads making up give me a shout. 
Brendan Brendan Admin note: this post has had its images recovered from a money grabbing photo hosting site and reinstated |
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13th Nov 2011 5:08pm |
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| JSG Member Since: 12 Jul 2007 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2412 
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Hi Chris,
In the 90 we ran the cables out through a gromit in the battery box and cable tied them to the chassis with an Anderson Connector just under the cross member. We used it to charge a battery in the off-road trailer at the time. For what you need though, I'd tend to go with Brendan's idea. John http://www.hampshire4x4response.co.uk 2011 Tdci 110 CSW XS |
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13th Nov 2011 5:34pm |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013
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Thanks for the advice, the old owner used long cables and crocodile clips....not a very practical set up on a Defender! The trailer weighs just short of a tonne on it's own as does the boat and the manufacturers burnt the first winch out on first try although the rating was correct and had to go up a load but the winch was very heavy. The previous owner has gone back down a size and maybe using a pulley system to reduce the load...He's not sure what winch he has on it so I will wait until it arrives!
In the meantime i have ordered a 2 speed hand winch as recommended by Indespension and the trailer manufacturer. Just need to mount it to lump of iron and concrete it into the ground so I can pull the trailer into position at home, can then also use the winch on the trailer as back up to the electric winch. |
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14th Nov 2011 11:14am |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581
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Standard crocodile clips are not to be recommended in a Defender battery box, not unless you want some big fat sparks flying around. Crocodile clips should be fully insulated for use in a Defender battery box..
Be careful about some of the claims on crocodile clips/jump leads etc. Have seen some crocodile clips rated at 800 amps. Only problem I can see is that they are about half the size of the ones we use, nor fully insulated. Ones we use are rated at 300 amps, as per photo already posted. Brendan |
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14th Nov 2011 2:24pm |
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| pom Member Since: 01 Jun 2010 Location: Worcester Posts: 1343 |
Should be insulated ?
Well they wont be making very good contact then |
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14th Nov 2011 2:32pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581
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OK smart arse! There is always one!!!! 
Brendan |
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14th Nov 2011 2:36pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8027  
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i'd run a set of cables (run the neg too) back along the top of the chassis rail and terminate in an Anderson sockets as already mentioned.
VWP is one source of the parts or try some one like D44 or Goodwinch If you have the connector outside make sure you get a plug for it when not connected. If its inside opening the door to fit the winch leads may get tiresome after the door has hit the jockey wheel a few times! Fit and inline cutout for the +ve somewhere where you can get to it quickly if needed. i would still do this even though you can always pull the anderson if it went wrong to break the power feed. I would also be in the practice of running the engine when you are operating the winch. Another option - put a battery on the trailer and just remove it when not required, it can charge through caravan socket elec. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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14th Nov 2011 3:02pm |
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| tatra805 Member Since: 16 Aug 2011 Location: Dolany Posts: 436  
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i'll throw in my 2 cents
Regarding cable, dont forget to visit your welding shop, they have bigger and, at least here, comparable cheaper cables which are made for the job. It is not only the mm2 that counts, also the construction (strands etc) as well as the isolation materials used define the quality. And i found welding cables to be superior. On your situation, although more expensive, I would consider putting a battery box on the trailer with deep cycle accu in it. That way your loooooong cables running from the car battery only support the trailer battery and mainly support charging your trailer battery. I am very wary of the currents involved with winching and the losses with long cables especially when these 2 are combined. (you are talking about 4-5 meters here, which is almost double length compared to a front bumper winch) Another benefit is that you can use your winch without the car attached, eg for parking it at home as you mentioned. just my 2cents  |
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14th Nov 2011 3:04pm |
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| Zagato Site Supporter Member Since: 08 Jan 2011 Location: Billingshurst West Sussex Posts: 5013
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I need to see the existing set up but I suspect the nose weight of the trailer became a problem (he has a SAAB 95 like mine and the rear shocks are renowned for being weak! They are appalling towers) He leaves the winch on the trailer so why replace it for a smaller one!!
I have to say I would probably prefer to use the hand-winch (simpler, less to maintain go wrong!) but it's a hell of a weight to pull up. The advantage also with the electric winch is that you can guide the boat on whilst using the remote to winch...It's worth trying to get it operational. Come the time in two weeks I'll give Brendan a call  |
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14th Nov 2011 4:56pm |
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| leeds Member Since: 28 Dec 2009 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 8581
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TUT, TUT, not supporting your friendly site sponsors? Where is the slapped bottom icon when you need it???
Some interesting points have been raised. Voltage drop depends on many different factors, AC/DC actual voltage, conductivity of cable, cable size (mm2), cable length, temperature, current being carried etc. Now we could get very technical here and equations could fly every where Now if people want to play with equations for a 24v DC circuit have a look HERE If you are unfamiliar with AWG then an AWG to mm2 table is HERE In practise what does this all mean? The larger the current draw, the longer length of cable, the larger the cross sectional area of cable is required. We have a rear mounted Warn 9.5 winch and that has 35mm2 cable to it and it works fine for our application. IF we were in a challenge vehicle the cable would be uprated to 50 or even 75mm2 copper cable. A challenge vehicle winch is required to pull higher loads, faster and more often then our use. Voltage drop is given for copper different size cables are typically Cable mV/A/m 25mm2 0.89 35mm2 0.64 50mm2 0.45 70mm2 0.32 So if you want get your calculator out and work out your own voltage drop. Cable sizing? Cross sectional areas are measured either in mm2 or AWG American wire gauge This is made up of a number of strands of given diameter 30% duty 40mm2 starter cable is 315/0.4 300 amps 35mm2 welding cable is 415/0.3 240 amps 600 amps 35mm2 twinflex cable is 2 x 1082/0.2 170 amps 500 amps The smaller the individual strands the more flexible the cable is. Twinflex is down rated for current carrying as two main conductors are close together As a rough rule of thumb assume 7-8 amps/mm2 as current capacity of cable. Hope that helps Brendan |
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14th Nov 2011 6:32pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8027
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Sorry, didnt think in those terms, just posted up who i have used in the past for winch wiring. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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14th Nov 2011 6:36pm |
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