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| jim4244 Member Since: 13 Apr 2014 Location: Bedfordshire Posts: 802   
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Hi all
This Landy has been doing the rounds on EBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295631980805?mk...media=COPY No mention of it in the description but it’s a Cat D car that has been written off. Jim |
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18th Apr 2023 7:19am |
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| jim4244 Member Since: 13 Apr 2014 Location: Bedfordshire Posts: 802
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Sold for the second time but is now back up for sale due to “Time wasters”……
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22nd Apr 2023 2:17pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17442  
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It can be hard to reinsure and significantly reduces its resale value. It would be unlawful to sell such a vehicle without making it clear that it was a rebuilt write-off, and it appears that the seller is not making it clear.
I imagine that the "time wasters" discovered the fraud and told the seller what to do with the vehicle and himself. |
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22nd Apr 2023 9:48pm |
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| chopcat Member Since: 11 Sep 2012 Location: Pembrokeshire Posts: 412  
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I understand but I suppose the question I am asking is why as surely it depends upon what the repairs are ?
The point about the law is a good one and new to me. Is that in the misrepresentation of of goods act or something like that. Any chance you can point me to it? Cheers TC Actually manages ot answer my own question here https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/insurance-write-off/ |
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23rd Apr 2023 6:23am |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2029
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If the seller is selling the vehicle privately, i.e not as a dealer, I don’t think they do have a legal obligation to declare any write off categories. And the advert is worded as a private sale by my reading. So I expect that if the buyers have done a check and if the seller has not been open about the repaired damage it has caused them to either Walk away or offer a lower price in the light of the new info and the seller was not happy to accept that price. |
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23rd Apr 2023 10:23am |
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| jim4244 Member Since: 13 Apr 2014 Location: Bedfordshire Posts: 802
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I was one of the “Time wasters”
My daughter is after a Defender and, on appearance, it looked a good vehicle. I did notice that various bidders had retracted their bids so asked the seller if it had ever been stolen, repaired or written off. He stated that it was a straight car and that the bidders who had retracted their bids were just time wasters. I won the car and did a full HPI check and it showed this -  Click image to enlarge I asked the seller why he had not disclosed this information and he in turn just cancelled the sale without saying anything. Jim |
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23rd Apr 2023 11:19am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17442
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Which doesn't make it a bad buy necessarily but does make worth significantly less and hence to fail to disclose a material fact and represent it as something it is not is fraud, private sale or not.
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23rd Apr 2023 7:22pm |
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| Landyash Member Since: 06 Feb 2011 Location: Nottinghamshire Posts: 286
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I for one wouldn't be put off by buying a Cat damaged car, sometimes they are written off for minor damaged.
Surely the price will reflect this? To be honest most older defender have had panels replaced and galvanised chassis etc so not a lot of difference except the insurance loss part.  # |
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25th Apr 2023 9:58am |
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| Will.I.AM Member Since: 16 May 2013 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 417 
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this is in fact 100% correct. a private seller does not have to disclose it but a trade seller or dealer can be taken to the cleaners for not disclosing. I had a simular experience after buying a discovery from a mate who i thought i trusted, turns out ir was a lemon and in fact a Cat D. That being said, I wouldn't neccasarily discount a purchase on a Cat vehicle providing i know the details and could give it a very thorough examination as it would automatically be worth less than other straight vehicles and potentially, you find that a car that has been reparied has a new lick of paint and a host of new parts! |
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25th Apr 2023 10:16am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17442
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Really? You are saying that it is legal for someone to misrepresent something they are selling in order to obtain more money than it would otherwise fetch? "Oh dear, did I forgot to mention that it was stolen when I sold it!" "Oh sorry, didn't I say that it was fake Versace not a real one!" "Obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception" is the definition of fraud from the Fraud Act 2006, so failing to disclose a fact of which you are aware and which materially devalues an item you are selling is clearly fraud. Whether you will be arrested for doing so and whether the CPS would pursue action is another matter (and probably depends on frequency and scale), but this does not alter the offence. Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2206:
(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—
(b) intends, by making the representation—
(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss. (2) A representation is false if—
(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading. (3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—
(b) any other person. (4) A representation may be express or implied. (5) For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention). I would have thought that the above would certainly cover the case in which a seller failed to disclose when asked that a vehicle had been written off. Section 3 covers fraud by failing to disclose, but only covers information for which there is a legal requirement to disclose, which may not be the case here. Last edited by blackwolf on 25th Apr 2023 2:33pm. Edited 2 times in total |
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25th Apr 2023 2:20pm |
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| Will.I.AM Member Since: 16 May 2013 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 417
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i am not saying it is legal but what i am saying is that a private seller does not have to conform to regulations like a company does i.e. 'Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008' and other regulations.
"If you bought the vehicle from a dealer then they should have told you its insurance status. You may be able to make a claim against them. Private sellers do not have to tell you about the Cat A status. If you ask, they must tell you of any problems they know about — but maybe they didn't know either" - this quote is from autotrader I did also find something on the government website but i can't find it just now, i will search a bit later as i am working but i did see something that said that a private seller can't be prosecuted for not disclosing whereas a trader can as a minimum be taken to court and potetially prosecuted depending on the circumstances. i am not a law proffesional but I did a lot of research after being screwed over by someone on a disco 3 and this is what i took from the research i did |
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25th Apr 2023 2:27pm |
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| jim4244 Member Since: 13 Apr 2014 Location: Bedfordshire Posts: 802
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Well it sold again on Saturday…. AND it’s now back on sale due to another time waster!😆
Click image to enlarge Jim |
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1st May 2023 4:25pm |
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| GAT Member Since: 19 Apr 2013 Location: Kent Posts: 113
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It states in the ad now that it is a Cat N vehicle. First Edition 90 in Pangea Green. (Gone)
P400 110 in Tasman Blue. |
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1st May 2023 7:53pm |
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| jim4244 Member Since: 13 Apr 2014 Location: Bedfordshire Posts: 802
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GAT, yes it does now. I messaged him and told him that it wasn’t the buyers who were time wasters as he was deliberately not declaring that the vehicle had a Cat marker against it. His reply was that it was up to the buyer to make sure that it didn’t have a Cat marker. I then reported him to EBay.
The vehicle was damaged all over due to an accident after being stolen NOT for having a few bits stolen off it at a Land Rover show as the advert now states… Jim |
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2nd May 2023 11:35am |
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