DEFENDER2.NET - View topic - Clutch switch and throttle responce

↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home · FAQ · New Posts · My Posts · PMs · Search · Members · Map · Calendar · Profile · Donate · Register · Log In

Home > Puma (Tdci) > Clutch switch and throttle responce

Page 2 of 3

Print this entire topic ·

slocum

Member Since: 16 Oct 2008
Location: Italy
Posts: 19

In low range the minimum rpm increases (only in motion) for a better response of the anti-stall. This is why in low range this behaviour is more noticeble, but the stepping off responce is actually the same.
You are lucky if you don't experience this symptom. On my Td5 this issue was really lesser than on my new td4. Fortunately I solved it!

19th Oct 2008 5:44pm

mse

Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5035

2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey

slocum wrote:
In low range the minimum rpm increases (only in motion) for a better response of the anti-stall. This is why in low range this behaviour is more noticeble, but the stepping off responce is actually the same.
You are lucky if you don't experience this symptom. On my Td5 this issue was really lesser than on my new td4. Fortunately I solved it!

Not what i was getting at. If you look at the tech stuff on the tdci defender.

In high the effective range on the accelerator is something like 30% where as on low you get full range for more control.

The increased pickup is something different for anti stall, but the whole mapping is changed.

Ill find the tech link:http://www.landrover.co.uk/gb/en/vehicles/...nology.htm

For instant throttle response under normal road conditions, the engine uses a Fast Throttle Control (FTC) setting: most of the engine's power is accessible in the first 30% of pedal travel. But when low range is selected, the throttle reverts to a long travel setting, allowing the gentle application of off-road power. Mike

19th Oct 2008 6:26pm

SteveNorman

Member Since: 16 Sep 2008
Location: Somerset
Posts: 18

Hi,
I have seen this problem, of 'flare' when depressing the clutch. It seems most noticable of 2007 MY vehicles.
When I have reflashed the engine management software to the latest spec using IDS, the problem seems to be much less, & also noticed an increase in torque.

Before updating, the flare was an increase of 1000 rpm when depressing the clutch, so at 3000rpm becomes 4000rpm, before dropping off, after was only about 200rpm.

I will experiment with the clutch switch & see what happens.

Regards
Steve

19th Oct 2008 8:19pm

slocum

Member Since: 16 Oct 2008
Location: Italy
Posts: 19

Ok mse, I now understand what you were talking about in your first post... I experienced very well this double setting in the tunisian erg. It doesn't annoy me at all, but the rised minimum rpm yes! This behaviour was hardly criticized in this comparative test too:

To elude this, you have to disconnect the reductor switch. I tested this, but I think that the anti-stall was deactivated as well. I need to do more tests...

Anyway, remind I'm always talking about the stepping off. That annoying slow reaction is being in all the conditions above. The only way to bump this is to elude the ECM by shortcutting the clutch switch.

19th Oct 2008 8:23pm

slocum

Member Since: 16 Oct 2008
Location: Italy
Posts: 19

Hi Steve. Great! Let me know!
This is what I do:

http://foto.fuoristrada.it/LandRover/eed

Some friends of mine are positively testing this too.

19th Oct 2008 8:31pm

mse

Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5035

SteveNorman wrote:
Hi,
I have seen this problem, of 'flare' when depressing the clutch. It seems most noticable of 2007 MY vehicles.
When I have reflashed the engine management software to the latest spec using IDS, the problem seems to be much less, & also noticed an increase in torque.

Before updating, the flare was an increase of 1000 rpm when depressing the clutch, so at 3000rpm becomes 4000rpm, before dropping off, after was only about 200rpm.

I will experiment with the clutch switch & see what happens.

Regards
Steve

I think this has been mentioned on here before - mine (and 0

only has the rpm increase of a few 100 on antistall pickup, harldy an impact (well less so on than the larger increases and i have made it stall with anti-stall in low too

)

Quote:
Ok mse, I now understand what you were talking about in your first post...

Glad we got there in the end, sometimes these things happen Mike

19th Oct 2008 10:01pm

slocum

Member Since: 16 Oct 2008
Location: Italy
Posts: 19

Yes, it happens! Fortunately someone like jst understood my first post at the first time

You simply confuse the reductor switch with the clutch switch... nothing serious!

20th Oct 2008 8:32am

John McNab

Member Since: 11 Nov 2016
Location: Wellington
Posts: 4

2010 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 SW Galway Green

All fascinating stuff guys, the biggest beef I have with the Defender puma is it dosen't do what its told as made, if I take my foot of the go, then it needs to get off the go instantly, if I wan't it to idle up I'll be doing it with my right foot, not my clutch foot. If I want it to not stall I'll adjust my driving technique and gear selection to do just that, as for different mappings for low and high range, are a damned nuisance. Disconnecting the low range Tbox switch and shorting the clutch switch returns control to you the Master. That said the antistall has some merit in small doses, on demand, so a dash overide switch on both the clutch and low range could be useful to bring the feature back for those rare occasions when it might be useful. I have yet to find that occasion, although feeding out hay by ones self comes to mind, like we used to in the old days, set the series governor on the third notch, point in straight line, get on the trailer and feed the stock. Which actually makes me think that bringing back the governor would be a lot simpler than antistall wizardry. On another note, we find that the dreaded P0234 code is not just a normal occurance with the puma motor to be cleared and forgotten, when combined with the mass airflow sensor fault of "within range but higher than expected" it really does mean your turbo is over boosting and the truck will run like a bag of the proverbials if you provoke it into that scenario and the ECU decides to rescue the motor. Currently the resolution for this is not clear, but is pointing very sharply at the turbo actuator malfunctioning under load, as a new MAP sensor is at hand, we will install that first, as it is the cause of the signal for overboost as far as I can make out. Will keep you posted

9th Mar 2017 8:01am

Defender forever

Member Since: 24 Oct 2020
Location: Litija
Posts: 1

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Orkney Grey

Re: Clutch switch and throttle responce

slocum wrote:
Probably many of you had already tried to disconnect the clutch switch, as used on td5 engine, and discovered that... nothing happens!
I've done some tests and I've discovered that the clutch switch on Puma engine works the opposite way than td5 switch. This means that it's a normally open switch and its disconnection is completely aimless. The right way to "disconnect" this switch is to shortcut it.
After done this I couldn't believe I was driving the same car! The "acceleration tail" completely disappears and the throttle finally responds as it would!
Maybe this solution might be useful for defender affected by "running on" of throttle too. I hope you will appreciate my experience.
Goodbye!
JS

Slocum, thank you very much for your finding, I don't know how I could be more grateful, I was on this to put a new switch in the cart on the online store when I found the forum and immediately in the morning did what you wrote as if I had another car, that rpms got on my nerves

24th Oct 2020 11:26am

AndyS

Member Since: 18 Aug 2012
Location: London
Posts: 595

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Sumatra Black

Are you saying a faulty clutch switch causes that annoying over revving when changing gear or that the over revving is a 'feature'? I've bought a new one but haven't fitted it yet. If it'll fix the over revving I'll swop it over, if not I'll bodge up a bridge for it. Thanks.

25th Oct 2020 10:50am

Pacha

Member Since: 23 Feb 2020
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 772

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Stornoway Grey

^^^^^^

Swapped mine Andy and it cured it. Rgds.

Chris

25th Oct 2020 1:23pm

Phil VM2.5

Member Since: 28 Mar 2012
Location: Limelette
Posts: 196

2012 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

Hi,
Sorry english is not my language so I do not understand all what you say.
In ny case, defender 2012 2,2 puma
When I am in low gear no power at all
So when you need power in moutains for exemple, I prefer stay in high range !!!
I have disconect a wire so power again in low range.
Philippe current : defender 110 sw 2.2 puma 2012 and 230.000km today and
again my Range Rover VM2.5 engine from 1992 and 528.000km today.

One ten 1988 to 1992
1987 BMW GS80
One Ten from 1984 to 1987
One Ten from 1983 to 1984
Serie 3 109 from 1980 to 1983
from 1974 Jeep CJ3B and CJ6

25th Oct 2020 2:21pm

AndyS

Member Since: 18 Aug 2012
Location: London
Posts: 595

Thanks Pacha, I better get on with it. Once it stops raining!

25th Oct 2020 2:56pm

LandymanStefan

Member Since: 30 Aug 2017
Location: Surrey
Posts: 881

Do you have to bleed the clutch if you change the switch? I need to change mine on my td5. I’m assuming the location it screws into is the same on the puma.

29th Oct 2020 10:08pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3410

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black

Resurrecting this old post, as never been so happy with the gear change on my 2.2. I guess it must be a delay between the switch changing state and the clutch actually engaging. But that is just a hypotheses.

So been wanting to test the behavior with the clutch switch shorted and disconnected.

1. With plug disconnect from switch but shorted, the Defender kangaroos a lot when at low load, constant throttle, just trying to maintain speed on a flat road, more on low gears. I suspect throttle response is quicker, and on the smallest bump, the throttle position might change slightly and the whole system goes into oscillation - hence kangarooing.

2. With plug disconnected from switch, driving is very smooth, even over bumps. But during gear change, the engine rev hang is so annoying.

So my question, is the behavior I had in 1 above normal, or is that a clue to some other problem? 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

16th Apr 2023 1:50pm

Page 2 of 3

All times are GMT

Jump to

< Previous Topic | Next Topic >

Posting Rules

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum