 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2.2 tappet noise |
 
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| Timcat Member Since: 20 Jul 2016 Location: Rugby at the moment Posts: 1025   
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Landhank, when I changed the VCV on ours & started it it had a really heavy tapet sound ( diesel knock) which cleared after 20-30 seconds.
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18th Jan 2023 5:58pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414  
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Perhaps try to get the frequency of the tapping at a fixed engine speed (there are apps for phones for that). The camshaft speed is half that of the engine speed, so if the engine is running at 2000rpm, if it is something related with the valve train or camshaft, the ticking sound should be at 1000bpm (beats per minute), or 16.67Hz. At about tickover (920rpm?), your sound is at about 3Hz, so that is 180bpm... which does not really correlate to the valve train speed. But I could be wrong as there is very short periods of time that the speed is constant in the video. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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18th Jan 2023 6:35pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17382 
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It could be a loose injector. An easy quick check is to see if one is bouncing up and down.
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18th Jan 2023 7:10pm |
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| PumaPhil Member Since: 26 Oct 2014 Location: Bridgend Posts: 201  
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Black wolf - a loose injector was one of my initial thoughts. I’ve had the injectors out several times now, once to replace the copper washers (although they looked ok), once to have the injectors tested, all of which were found to be very good, then once again when I replaced the rocker arm carrier ladder.
Dinnu - My thoughts are that the timing of the noise is related to one cylinder? The noise is more of a rattle than it sounds in the video and when I removed the rocker arm carrier ladder and ‘rocked’ each rocker by hand, this created the noise I can hear. I hoped that maybe it was a damaged rocker on one cylinder, so changed the whole lot to be sure, but the noise did not change. This is why my current thinking is possibly one cam worn and putting one valve timing out (I have read somewhere that the cams are pressed onto the shaft on transits and can move on the camshaft?) Any other ideas on what it can be would be welcomed. The only know problem is that three of the glow plugs aren’t working, but I can’t see any way that this can be related. Apart from this the engine runs well. I don’t think it is big end or little end bearings because I believe these make more of a knock than a rattle and this engine has done several thousand miles whilst making this noise and is yet to throw a rod through the block. A few more videos attached at constant rpm’s |
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20th Jan 2023 10:50pm |
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| Bradders130 Member Since: 27 Nov 2021 Location: Southampton Posts: 83 
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I agree with you that it sounds like it is pertaining to one of the cylinders, or valve gear for that cylinder. Have you tried getting a mechanics stethoscope to listen to exactly which part of the engine it is coming from? Either that or a long screwdriver.
It could be a little end on one of the cylinders maybe? 😬 If so, you could get to it via the sump with the engine in. |
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21st Jan 2023 12:21pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17382
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No way could you get to a little end with the engine in situ, unfortunately. The ladder frame between the sump and the block makes.a lot of traditional tricks impossible.
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21st Jan 2023 6:09pm |
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| PumaPhil Member Since: 26 Oct 2014 Location: Bridgend Posts: 201
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If I remove the sump is it possible on this engine to diagnose little end bearings? I will remove it this week to investigate. It has been suggested by someone who knows Fords that this noise can be caused by the oil pump in the sump.
I’ve had a couple of Land Rover mechanics listen with stethoscopes. They struggled to pinpoint a source, other than from the back left side of the block as viewed from the drivers seat. |
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21st Jan 2023 10:20pm |
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| landhank Member Since: 27 Oct 2021 Location: RLP Posts: 37 
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Good morning,
you could send in an oil sample to check if there are some smallest metal parts from worn in bearings… |
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22nd Jan 2023 6:48am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414
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I doubt if you could see the little ends on the con rods with just the sump off. Have a look at this video, the ladder frame will prevent seeing much.
With the vane oil pump on the 2.2, it is worth replacing anyway as part of maintenance. Just have a look at this page from forum member, where his pump failed. https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic61028-135.html There is a lot of discussion, especially in Australia on replacing the vane pump with a gear pump. https://ssch.com.au/oil-pump-upgrade-2-2-and-3-2-ranger-bt-50/ https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.20...amp;type=3 I do not know if the 2.4 gear oil pump would be a straight fit if you plug the oil feedback that controls the variable mechanism of the 2.2 vane pump could work. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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22nd Jan 2023 7:03am |
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| PumaPhil Member Since: 26 Oct 2014 Location: Bridgend Posts: 201
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That is a really useful video, thanks Dinnu.
I’ve just worked out that I’ve done at least 15’000 miles this year with the engine making this noise. It hasn’t really got any worse over that time. Would I be right in assuming that a worn little end bearing would have self destructed over this mileage? (Or maybe I am just hoping it is not that serious!) I have serviced it a couple of times in those miles and every time the engine oil, although black, shows no sign of metal particles. Timcat, did yours make a similar noise when you changed the V2V? Does this noise sounds like it could be VCV related? |
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23rd Jan 2023 4:06pm |
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| PumaPhil Member Since: 26 Oct 2014 Location: Bridgend Posts: 201
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By way of an update, the engine got louder and the oil pressure light was taking longer to extinguish after starting from cold. Also a very, very minor misfire. The camshafts looked perfect, however on removing the sump, about a 1/2 of a teaspoon of metal fragments were in the bottom (although otherwise the sump was spotlessly clean). A few photos of the metal pieces attached. General opinion is that they are big end or little end bearing pieces…
Everyone I have spoken to suggests that piston, bores and possibly the crankshaft will likely be scored and that a new engine is the best way forward. So, any advice on where to source one? M and D engineering are offering stripped, brand new 2.2 engines on their website which seems a sensible option.  Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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12th Apr 2023 8:20pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2001
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Vitesse Global https://www.vitesse-ltd.com/collections/vi...-lr055342n also sell new stripped or fully dressed engines for a similar price to M & D engineering.
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12th Apr 2023 9:18pm |
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| PumaPhil Member Since: 26 Oct 2014 Location: Bridgend Posts: 201
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Thanks for the link Ianh, the guys at Vitesse were very helpful and there is now a brand new stripped engine making it’s way to us.
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19th Apr 2023 12:06pm |
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| Siwynne Member Since: 04 Nov 2016 Location: West lancs Posts: 578 
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Only just spotted this thread and after watching was going to suggest a worn big end bearing. Mine sounded exactly the same when it had a habit of eating big ends. (Three sets)
I eventually replaced all moving parts including the crank. |
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19th Apr 2023 5:43pm |
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