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MattH268



Member Since: 01 Dec 2021
Location: Moray
Posts: 66
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HCPU Fuji White
EX MOD S3 109 potential project
I've been after a series project and came across this sad looking ex-mod S3 109 locally that the owner started but clearly lost interest in. I'm sure it's been parked up in the same state for at least 2 maybe 3 years.


Click image to enlarge

I'm told that it ran prior to being parked up to do a P38 power steering install, it's unfinished and the cab is a complete state with wires everywhere, missing dash and no seats. I'm told it has seats but not sure about the rest of the interior.

The owner did say that it's rust free with all welding done which is probably correct for the chassis & bulkhead as they do look solid. Whilst I've stopped by many times in passing I've never crawled around it as it never felt right to me.

I'm sure that many of my questions will be addressed once I see its documentation and get a proper look with a mechanic mate who owns multiple Land-Rovers.

My concerns have really centered on my online searches and falling fowl if trying to get it back on the road. Currently it has a 2.5d engine fitted, I'm told fitted by the MOD during it's service but the DVLA check showed it as a 2.3 Diesel. The owner has a tdi that can be included and would likely be a better option if fitted. It was also built in 1980 yet first registered in 1993 but this seems normal for MOD vehicles but is there docs I should see to verify that this is ok with the DVLA as I wouldn't want to spend the time & money to find out I can't register it on it's current V plate. It's also failed many MOT's but clearly has been on the road since 2013 when it last flagged. I'm less worried about the mileage discrepancy as it's clearly gone around the clock at least once.

I'm not sure about the power steering install as it looks huge in such a small space but then I plan to remove the truck cab and fit a canvas or hard top so hopefully given a touch more space. I don't fit well in an 88" a 109 should be better for me.

Are there any pointer or other things I should look at when I go too see the vehicle?

Many Thanks

Matt 300tdi 90 CSW
2.2tdci 110 HCPU
1972 Series 3 88" Truck Cab
Post #987747 3rd Apr 2023 11:07am
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gcc130



Member Since: 05 Jun 2015
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 739
I think it’s unlikely that the mod fitted the 2.5l Diesel engine. As far as I’m aware all military series 3’s we’re 2 1/4 petrols.
Post #987765 3rd Apr 2023 1:18pm
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gcc130



Member Since: 05 Jun 2015
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 739
Sorry, double post.
Post #987766 3rd Apr 2023 1:18pm
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MattH268



Member Since: 01 Dec 2021
Location: Moray
Posts: 66
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HCPU Fuji White
Thanks for the reply I guess it's something else to ask the owner. With it being registered in 93 its had 8 owners as I guess the MOD doesn't count as number 1. Some of those 8 will have keep every record others that didn't but whether it got passed on I'll have to find out. 300tdi 90 CSW
2.2tdci 110 HCPU
1972 Series 3 88" Truck Cab
Post #987770 3rd Apr 2023 1:48pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17372
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
You do know that there is absolutely no difference in cab size between a 109 and an 88 (or 110 and 90 for that matter), so you will either fit in both or neither.

Agree with gcc130 that it is extremely unlikely that the 2.5D was fitted in MoD service. It is not unknown for the 2286cc (series) motor, whether petrol or diesel, to be recorded as 2.3L, but as far as I am aware the MoD didn't run any diesel 2286cc series vehicles, they were all petrol.

I'm confused by your statements about registration. You say built 1980 and registered 1993, which is consistent with a vehicle in military service cast in 1993 and registered then. You also refer to it having a "V" plate, which, assuming you mean a "V"-suffix plate, reflects a 1980 vehicle. This suggests that it was given an age-related plate when registered in 1993. YOu then however go on to say "I wouldn't want to spend the time & money to find out I can't register it on it's current V plate" but presumably the vehicle is already registered, so why would there be any doubt about this?

Edit: two typos corrected.

Last edited by blackwolf on 3rd Apr 2023 5:30pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #987782 3rd Apr 2023 3:42pm
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MattH268



Member Since: 01 Dec 2021
Location: Moray
Posts: 66
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HCPU Fuji White
I would like a project that's not bicycle related (self employed bike mechanic) but I want one and i'll just have to learn to fit Smile

Last letter on the registration plate is V which I thought was 1979/1980, this I thought tied it in nicely with what I found on the DVLA website - manufactured in 1980. I've just been sent a picture of the vehicle identification plate so I will try to research the details on that. It was first registered in 1993 but must have been given the plate dated to its build year. I am guilty of confusing the issue and myself too 🤯

Would there be a way of finding out when the replacement engine was fitted without any documents? It must have an engine number but how do you find details from that?

Thank You

Matt 300tdi 90 CSW
2.2tdci 110 HCPU
1972 Series 3 88" Truck Cab
Post #987796 3rd Apr 2023 4:46pm
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MattH268



Member Since: 01 Dec 2021
Location: Moray
Posts: 66
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HCPU Fuji White
Code decodes as Series 3 109 truck cab/soft top/hardtop/ 2.25 petrol/ rhd 4spd up to 1983-84 Solihull

I also have a con no, Reg no, Ces No, Code no and if a N.S.N no its unreadable. Assume military so researching. 300tdi 90 CSW
2.2tdci 110 HCPU
1972 Series 3 88" Truck Cab
Post #987803 3rd Apr 2023 5:06pm
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gcc130



Member Since: 05 Jun 2015
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 739
The engine number will only tell you what the donor vehicle was and roughly what age, it won’t tell you when it was fitted to your potential project.
The 2.5 naturally aspirated Diesel engine was used in ninety’s and one tens and was used by the mod for many years after it was superseded in civilian vehicles by the 2.5 TD and then the 200tdi.
Post #987805 3rd Apr 2023 5:30pm
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MattH268



Member Since: 01 Dec 2021
Location: Moray
Posts: 66
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HCPU Fuji White
Thank you gcc130.

I am swaying to the 8th owners understanding that the engine was fitted during it's army days. My basis is that the 2.5na d which is currently fitted was in production between 84 & 92, this 109 was registered civilian in 92, the army (according to research) had 20k vehicles with this engine between 85 & 94 and if one was lying about for some reason easily available when a petrol wasn't it somehow got transplanted into this 109. Reasons unknown but potentially plausible. 300tdi 90 CSW
2.2tdci 110 HCPU
1972 Series 3 88" Truck Cab
Post #987810 3rd Apr 2023 6:03pm
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gcc130



Member Since: 05 Jun 2015
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 739
I doubt they would convert a petrol to diesel unless it was for a very specific task.
The mod had plenty of rebuilt 2 1/4 petrol engines in store.
Post #987814 3rd Apr 2023 6:22pm
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MattH268



Member Since: 01 Dec 2021
Location: Moray
Posts: 66
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HCPU Fuji White
Very true, I guess it's one of those things potentially lost in its 40+ year history 300tdi 90 CSW
2.2tdci 110 HCPU
1972 Series 3 88" Truck Cab
Post #987822 3rd Apr 2023 7:19pm
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MattH268



Member Since: 01 Dec 2021
Location: Moray
Posts: 66
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HCPU Fuji White
I'm off to see Thor (painted on the roof) properly later today to have a good poke around it. The current owner also believes that he has all of the originally removed and missing parts plus many others to complete the build, comes with a tdi engine. The only parts missing are the main dash and the hydraulic lines for the power steering conversion. We shall see....

I sent a message to the Merlin Archive to see if they have details for the vehicle on their records.

I appreciate the replies so far.

Many Thanks

Matt 300tdi 90 CSW
2.2tdci 110 HCPU
1972 Series 3 88" Truck Cab
Post #987852 4th Apr 2023 7:14am
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Shroppy



Member Since: 25 Feb 2016
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 866
United Kingdom 1986 Defender 130 V8 Petrol HCPU Aintree Green
blackwolf wrote:
You do know that there is absolutely no difference in cab size between a 109 and an 88.


Not quite true, whilst the cab panels (roof and rear panel) are the same, there is a difference in the available seating positions. More adjustability is afforded in a 109 truck cab since the rear bulkhead is positioned further back. Hence the requirement for a filer plate when fitting a truck cab to an 88. 1985 127 V8 Build Thread
Series 2 109"
Series 1 80"
Post #987896 4th Apr 2023 1:40pm
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blackwolf



Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17372
United Kingdom 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Shroppy wrote:
... the rear bulkhead is positioned further back ...


I didn't know that, I thought they were the same. Every day is a school day!

Thanks. Thumbs Up
Post #987901 4th Apr 2023 2:05pm
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MattH268



Member Since: 01 Dec 2021
Location: Moray
Posts: 66
United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 HCPU Fuji White
Good to have a close up look around but it's not one I could justify as I reckon you'd need to almost start again. The search continues.

Thank you for your replies.

M 300tdi 90 CSW
2.2tdci 110 HCPU
1972 Series 3 88" Truck Cab
Post #987928 4th Apr 2023 6:11pm
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