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moge

Member Since: 27 Oct 2021
Location: Dartmoor
Posts: 7

2010 Defender Puma 110 ticking over, but not going into idle

Hi All,

Need a little bit of support as I am running out of ideas.

I have a puma 2.4 2010 110 Utility which is used daily (144k miles). The following in order occurred (sorry for the lengthy post but I wanted to make sure that I shared everything).

4 weeks ago: Came to start it, turn the key, tried to turn over but just didn't go into idle. Turned it off, then back on again 3 to 4 times before it then went into idle. This happened once (i.e. not across multiple days)
3-1 weeks ago: No issues at all. Started first time, even time.
28th December: Started without an issue in the morning. Drove 16 miles to my mother in law. tuned it off, dropped the dog off and said hello (no more than 10 min). Then it would not start again, with the same issue I experienced 4 weeks prior. It then started after the 5th time.
28th December: Once started I drove it up to my parents without any issues (170+ miles).
29th December: At lunch time, I went to start the defender, with no luck. It was the same issue as before, turn the key, it gets to the point of it going into idle and then cuts out. On a few occasions, it went into idea for .5 seconds before it cut out.
29th December: Got a local 4x4 engineer out (luckily) who looked at it for me. He showed that fuel was going into the engine (although he mentioned that there was a little bit of air in fuel intake 3 and 4). We also used the start spray into the air intake, which seems to start for a split second then cuts out. Finally, we check the battery, what was at 65% capacity. Once he connected his battery charger, it started first time without any issues. So after lengthily decisions, we concluded that we should replace the battery. For the next hour it was at idea to charge the battery. Later that evening, I tried to turn it on and the same issue occurred (not starting).
30th December: early morning went and installed a new battery. Straight away it started first time. Left it to idea for 20 mins. Turned off and on again 3 times with no issues. Then went to pack up and head home, car was standstill for 40 mins, and the same issue occurred again - it would not go into idle. I disconnected the battery, left it off for 30 mins and reconnected and it started perfectly.
30th December: After it started, drove back home (170+ miles). Once home, turned it off, waiting 5 mins and turned it on - with the issue still occurring.
Today: Again today, still the same issue will not go into idle.

When it does start there are no engine warning lights, not oil lights on the dash.
I removed most of the connectors and check the quality of them - but looks good.
The EGR was replaced about 3 months ago (someone suggested it might be that).
Full services was conducted 3 months ago with over 7k spent to bring it up to standard.
Oil is good and has enough fuel in.

I am at a loss as to why it will get to the point of idle then cut out.

Any ideas would be great and thank you so much for reading this.
Jon

2nd Jan 2023 11:35am

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8021

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Stornoway Grey

What's crank sensor doing?

So it turns over every time?
Just sometimes fires sometimes doesn't?
Or doesn't turn over or turns over slowly?
Or turns over fast but doesn't fire at all? Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

2nd Jan 2023 12:05pm

moge

Member Since: 27 Oct 2021
Location: Dartmoor
Posts: 7

Thanks for coming back to me.

What's crank sensor doing? - nothing that seems to be different.

So it turns over every time? - it was intermittent but now will not fire at all. It cuts out just before it would fire and go into idle.
Just sometimes fires sometimes doesn't? No it will not fire at all now.
Or doesn't turn over or turns over slowly? When it did turn over previously it would turn over just fine (as they all do).
Or turns over fast but doesn't fire at all? Correct. Now it turns over fast but doesn’t fire and goes dead.

Hope that make sense.

2nd Jan 2023 12:27pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17364

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Any stored DTCs in the ECM?

What fuel rail pressure are you seeing when it starts and when it fails to start?

2nd Jan 2023 1:34pm

moge

Member Since: 27 Oct 2021
Location: Dartmoor
Posts: 7

So just got a Diagnostic tool.

Completed a smart scan and it comes up with:
P1402 - exhaust Gas’s Recirculation - metering orifice restricted / value sensor circuit.
P0403 - exhaust gas recirculation control circuit
P0404 - exhaust gas recirculating control - circuit range /performance
P1103 - mass air flow sensor in range but higher than expected.

When I looked at the data is comes up with the attached.

Guessing the EGR is faulty?

2nd Jan 2023 1:44pm

moge

Member Since: 27 Oct 2021
Location: Dartmoor
Posts: 7

Also to add - the last time home, at the end the EGR did complete a cleaning when I turned the car off.

2nd Jan 2023 1:53pm

jst

Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Taunton
Posts: 8021

MiL light on? Cheers

James
110 2012 XS Utility
130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper
90 2010 Hardtop
90 M57 1988 Hardtop

2nd Jan 2023 2:30pm

moge

Member Since: 27 Oct 2021
Location: Dartmoor
Posts: 7

No, the MiL light is not on.

2nd Jan 2023 2:36pm

Ianh

Member Since: 17 Sep 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 1997

The EGR does not do its little waggle dance every time the engine is stopped, so even if it does not do it, it is not necessary an issue.

So I would.
1.Check the fuel filter is sealing properly as you stated you had a big service and as such I expect the fuel filter was replaced, if aftermarket one used they sometimes do not fit correctly, or if gen may not be screwed fully home. As your mechanic said their was air in the system it could be the issue.

2.Clear the DTC’s now you have them recorded, then see if they reappear. If not then you can rule out the MAF and EGR. Noting an EGR or MAF issue generally triggers a MIL / CEL.

3. Give your MAF and MAP sensors a clean anyway, easy and quick to do so no downsides in doing so.

4. check air filter and air box lid is fitted correctly and all pipe clips secured.

If after clearing DTC’s they do not reappear yet issue persists it could be VCV or potentially ignition switch, relay or poor seating fuse.

2nd Jan 2023 4:40pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17364

It is sounding like another VCV problem, hence my question about fuel rail pressure.

2nd Jan 2023 5:58pm

moge

Member Since: 27 Oct 2021
Location: Dartmoor
Posts: 7

Thanks Ianh. Will look at this tomorrow.

Thanks Blackwolf. How do you test the Fuel rail pressure?

Thanks, Jon

2nd Jan 2023 6:14pm

mwestcrew

Member Since: 09 Dec 2019
Location: South Warwickshire
Posts: 251

2011 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Baltic Blue

I’d bet good money on that being VCV.
No MIL light.
No related fault codes
Intermittent
No consistent fault 2011 130 Utility Body
2005 110 Van

2nd Jan 2023 6:41pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17364

moge wrote:
Thanks Ianh. Will look at this tomorrow.

Thanks Blackwolf. How do you test the Fuel rail pressure?

Thanks, Jon

Hopefully your diagnostic tools can also display live data.

2nd Jan 2023 8:17pm

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