 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Broken Diff - need to source new axle |
 
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17477   
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Front or rear?
If it is the diff, then changing the diff is easier (and substantially cheaper) than changing the axle unless the collateral damage is very extensive. |
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24th Oct 2022 9:05am |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1585 
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It’s the front. It sounded pretty bad and there appears to be a dent in the casing but I am unsure.
I just thought with 156k is it time for swivels, cv’s and half shafts? Any advice gratefully received. |
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24th Oct 2022 9:53am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17477
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I thought it would probably be the front, they are notoriously weak.
To provide perspective on the rest of the axle, my Defender (a 2007 110 DC) is now on 260k miles. The swivels, swivel seals, and front wheel bearings are all the factory-fitted originals. The halfshafts and CVs are Ashcroft HD items I fitted when I fitted the front ATB after my front diff imploded at about 90k miles when the vehicle was 4 years old. I have no reason to believe that the halfshafts and CVs wouldn't still be going strong if I hadn't changed them. The only other thing I did to the front axle was fit the reinforcing brackets in case the end welds fail, even though my axle is not in the affected range of dodgy welds. It isn't too hard to find someone selling a complete front axle, but if I was in your predicament I'd be more inclined to overhaul the one I had, since (a) a replacement is likely to have come of a wrecked vehicle so you don't really know what has happened to it, (b) you really want to avoid a MIG-welded axle and get a friction-welded axle so you don't die in a fireball when the ends break off, (c) unless you can find one with a 4-gear diff, there's a good chance that the diff in the new axle will fail at some unpredictable time as well. The "simple" task of finding a replacement axle has therefore become the task of finding a 110/130 front axle with friction welded ends and a four-gear diff, and that will not be easy, and probably won't be cheap either (and there is no easy way to tell which type of diff is fitted prior to buying it, you have to peer into the filler hole with a torch). A big unknown with your current axle will be the condition of the halfshafts and whether they have been damaged in the break-up of the diff. Mine survived a catastrophic break-up of the differential and side gears without damage, but there really is no way to tell without dropping the diff. It is relatively quick and easy to drop the diff since you can do it by unbolting the swivel hubs form the axle tube and pulling them out a couple of inches, but there is quite a lot more work involved in removing the halfshafts since the hubs must be stripped. When I rebuilt my front axle, the aggregate cost of the Ashcroft ATB, HD halfshafts and CVs was still lower than the cost of a service exchange diff from Land-Rover. |
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24th Oct 2022 11:45am |
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| jpboost Member Since: 13 Apr 2021 Location: Gatwick Posts: 377 
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As BW has put above, I'd start with the axle you have if possible
Unless the casing is damaged, I'd think this would be your most cost effective and simplest route to a good (fully refurbished) axle |
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24th Oct 2022 12:10pm |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434  
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If you really want a new axle, then I think you should go for it. Winchester gears has a good reputation.
https://www.winchestergears.com/front--axle-4136-p.asp Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭 |
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24th Oct 2022 1:05pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1585
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It’s damaged the front axle casing quite bad, there’s quite a hole.
Would I have done further damage removing the propshaft and driving home?? |
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24th Oct 2022 1:53pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1585
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Winchester isn’t a bad price really. I will give them a call.
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24th Oct 2022 1:58pm |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 553 
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I would check the condition of your other parts and asses if they need changing. I would expect the cost of a replacement axle being quite high. If you buy a refurbished axle you are not necessarily getting everything new, especially the diff.
I have recently did a refurb on my front axle and I managed it for about £850ish - but that was before prices went silly. I didn't change diff or drive shafts, cvs or flanges. Little things add up, such as small seals, gaskets, etc, but especially the fixings as these include caliper bolts, swivel to axle and drive flange etc. Also remember you may require brake pipes, shock bushes, etc. It's possible that you may get a decent 2nd hand axle, but you are still getting a used axle that may have a higher milage than yours. If your brakes are OK then the used ones may be worse. Also make sure you check the swivel balls - when I bought my defender they looked great from the front so I assumed they were OK but the back was a different story! Good luck with your decision. |
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24th Oct 2022 2:26pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1585
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Winchester want £2400 including vat.
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24th Oct 2022 3:22pm |
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| Angus_Beef Member Since: 30 Apr 2015 Location: Oslo Posts: 434
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Thats with a standard 2-pin diff like the one you had blow up. Would be well worth upgrading to a 4-pin or, better yet, an Ashcroft ATB in my humble opinion. Full disclosure: I have an ATB in the front of my 2015 110, which I really like a lot, so I am probably biased. Roaming around 🇳🇴🇨🇭 |
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24th Oct 2022 3:42pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1848 
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I think photos would really help here - allowing folk to better gauge what you have and what might/might not make sense.
Did the hole in the casing get caused by an accident that damaged the diff? Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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24th Oct 2022 4:10pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3431  
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Exploding gears can damage and hole the diff pan, quite common actually. If damage is localized, I would hammer it back to shape, and weld it up. Worse case the diff pan can be replaced. Search for DA104x (correct is DA1043 for front) standard diff pan.
If still wanting to replace the axle, stay clear of second hand units from 2010 till 2013, as mentioned already due to the poor mig welding of the end flanges. Also the panhard rod bracket changed somewhere around 2002, with stronger bracing and an M16 bolt iso M14. So if you want the correct panhard rod racket, then Discovery 1 axles are not an easy option, although YRM makes the later panhard brackets that can be welded to early axles. Discovery 2 are very different design. Edit: I need to correct myself: Front diff pan is DA1043. I corrected it above as well. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black Last edited by Dinnu on 24th Oct 2022 5:13pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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24th Oct 2022 4:57pm |
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| roel Member Since: 08 Aug 2009 Location: Lelystad Posts: 2039  
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Removing the propshaft might have helped. A hole n the casing is probably a result from a lost teeth that get jammed between the crownwheel and the casing. The Crownwheel would have been turning anyway, that a teeth got jammed is pure bad luck.
I have broken some diffs and other parts but still use the same axle casings.  Click image to enlarge Roel 1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001) 1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009) 2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts. 2003 90 Td5 (2009-now) |
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24th Oct 2022 5:05pm |
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| RobKeay Member Since: 19 Jul 2009 Location: Stafford Posts: 1585
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I’ve locked it away for the night along with a broken motorbike. I’ll get some shots in the morning. Put it this way there is no longer any oil in there. Also the diff pin has fallen out.
When I look at the axle, the swivels are leaking. I’ll take this as a lesson it’s time to look after the 110 better. I’ve had it from new, have no intention of selling. |
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24th Oct 2022 5:17pm |
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