 | Home > INEOS Grenadier > Hydrogen powered Grenadier? |
 
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4663  
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A hydrogen fuelled version?
"Ineos Automotive has one more important task before the end of the year. The automaker will begin on- and off-road testing of the Grenadier Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle (FCEV) Concept with a hydrogen fuel cell powertrain. We will hopefully learn more about it in the coming weeks." From here, bottom paragraph. https://www.msn.com/en-ie/cars/news/ineos-...a2f2a592e9 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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19th Oct 2022 6:37pm |
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| Bowbearer Member Since: 12 Aug 2022 Location: Norfolk Posts: 173  
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Hydrogen is an interesting debate.
JCB are converting their Tractors to run on it and are encouraging farmers to invest in Hydrogen tank infrastructure instead of oil. If Inios are going after this market it may work. The Germans are looking to invest in Big Hydrogen plants and here in the UK Bacton Gas terminal is looking at producing green electricity for Hydrogen production. I think pure electric cars are a political stop gap to give governments time to plan ahead and appear green. Glad the Grenadier has hit production and they are talking Hydrogen, anything in the "green" car power options is good. |
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20th Oct 2022 8:53am |
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| AMBxx Member Since: 24 Jul 2016 Location: York Posts: 1032 
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I can see hydrogen being great for storing excess energy from other generators such as wind or tide.
Yet to be convinced of the merits of using it for passenger cars. That said, we have a delivery of oil for our heating every few months and there are plenty of people with gas tanks in their garden. Any thoughts on the volume of hydrogen required for an annual 10,000 miles? |
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20th Oct 2022 9:16am |
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 422 
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I remember someone calculating the amount of hydrogen needed and you will need a very and very expensive tank if you want to store your annual need. It’s just not something a regular consumer is going to do. Hydrogen fuel stations are a lot more expensive than petrol ones, and of course excessively expensive compared to electric.
BEVs are not a stop gap, they’re the end goal. Hybrids were maybe stop gap. Of course at some point in time we may get something even better but that is where the industry is going. Hydrogen doesn’t have any real benefits for personal use compared to batteries, and has significant drawbacks. Remember fuel cell cars are electric too, they just use an inefficient way to store electricity. People are just so used to ‘pumping stuff’ that they seem stuck in that model. As mentioned there may be a case for heavy industry, although there is still debate. For those users a hydrogen Grenadier might make sense, but I don’t see the general public going for it, or even farmers necessarily (it’s just too handy to charge things at home). |
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20th Oct 2022 12:18pm |
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| rtm89 Member Since: 14 May 2013 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 255 
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I guess the flip side of all of this is that 10 years ago there were virtually no electric car chargers especially not on peoples drives.
Hydrogen stations would become more commonplace as companies develop them more and they become more efficient. An interesting concept would be a hydrogen/electric hybrid effectively being a dual fuel. You could plug in at home and when the electric ran out the hydrogen works as a generator to recharge the battery as well as a second fuel to keep you running which you would top up at a fuel station. The worlds changing but I'll keep plodding around in my 2.4  |
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20th Oct 2022 2:32pm |
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| Bowbearer Member Since: 12 Aug 2022 Location: Norfolk Posts: 173
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JCB have converted their Diesel engines to run on Hydrogen. Same efficiency. no need to convert to electric.
Hydrogen M/hev would be good compromise. I thought Inios would follow JCB model. |
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20th Oct 2022 2:44pm |
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| Setok Member Since: 16 Jan 2009 Location: Helsinki Posts: 422
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The thing is, almost nobody is developing those stations. The charger network is already quite extensive and rapidly growing, and everyone has electricity at home, so home charging is trivial. Same as businesses, hotels etc. It's cheap and easy to add charging spots for customers. They will soon be completely ubiquitous, meaning if you stop somewhere, you can charge. The laws of physics are against hydrogen systems at the moment. Petrol at least has some benefit in that it is high in energy density (otherwise we'd never have had ICEs as EVs are better in every other way). Having a hybrid system has the same drawbacks as current petrol hybrids: added complexity. You basically have to build two systems, and you lose the low maintenance of pure EV. So why bother? Just have one system and add a bit more battery. It's what VW, Porsche, Ford, GM, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia, and of course Tesla are all betting on. What's the benefit of having hydrogen in the mix inside a personal car? |
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20th Oct 2022 3:32pm |
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| kenzle8a Member Since: 12 Feb 2020 Location: None Posts: 1074 
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IMO we will have synthetic fuels as the stop gap / industry solution for the applications where having or converting to a BEV won't work. Seeing as we already have the infrastructure for syntherics to be used, stored and delivered it makes more sense than hyrdogen.
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20th Oct 2022 3:45pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17387 
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I don't believe any of the energy sources currently being proposed provides a single, one-type-suits-all alternative to fossil fuels, and the most important thing is that people keep looking, developing and inventing new alternatives.
Whether we will ever have a single universal fuel source again seems unlikely, unless someone can invent a clean synthetic hydrocarbon substitute. I wonder when the world will wake up to the fact that battery production is severely detrimental to the environment. |
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20th Oct 2022 4:23pm |
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