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billy56

Member Since: 05 Oct 2013
Location: Co Antrim
Posts: 20

Cheers! Thanks for the photos, i see a set being ordered straight away 👍

20th Sep 2022 9:05pm

B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 HT Galway Green

Unfortunately my MOT tester failed the CRYSTAL LED HEADLIGHTS from SP 4x4 .
They failed on MOT test 4.1.2 c

Not good.
Maybe my mot tester was overly picky but he said they definitely do not conform to the UK MOT regulations on beam pattern.

Any comments on this would be welcome?? "You are never to old to learn something new"

14th Oct 2022 9:22pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20325

Click image to enlarge

For them to be E marked they must meet beam requirements, I could be wrong but my guess is the alignment is incorrect and the tester has made out the lights are at fault but not the beam and or possibly not know or be prepared to align them.

I had some issues with alignment with my Noldens when first fitted, at first I fitted them with rough alignment but I knew it still wouldn’t be exactly on MOT alignment settings.

So I went to a LR dealer to have them done, which they charged an inflated sum for.

Assuming that LR would know what they were doing I assumed that would do the job this was with Cystals with H4 bulbs.
When after I fitted them - wrong! MOT tester at the time told me that they failed alignment which LR supposedly tweaked after I fitted the Crystals.
However, he corrected them for free when in and passed it as he said it was a clear pass except that anyway.
The following year passed no trouble too.

When I say Crystals this was the days when I had H4 Halogen bulbs and Wipac Crystal fixtures which are incandescent units and not LED.

Anyway, after learning from that and down the line I got the Noldens I have now and fitted some SS retainer rings and adjusted them as best I could myself.
Leading from previous experience I went and got them aligned as I knew they would need to be to prevent any MOT issue.

This time I went to Halfords where they do MOT’s anyway in the bay. (I believe they have a system for beam alignment?)
This was before MOT and I paid something like £15 which was fine. (LR charged over double that years ago and said dealer is closed now).

Anyway, no problems at all with the Noldens being aligned. Job done.

Later that year went in for MOT and all good clean sweep so not a problem at all.
So Halfords outswept LR on a fundamental basic and the chap that did the alignment at Halfords said the beam pattern was all over the place.
It was only after this was done I then had full benefit of them.

Another issue that is possible is being sold LHD units instead of RHD by accident which is useless for obvious reasons as each is deigned for different markets.
Sometimes packaging gets mixed up and things like that, it’s rare but can happen.

Moral of the story is, if you fit your own headlights is roughly adjust them yourself but for just a few £ get them aligned at an MOT testing station pre MOT just to get them bang on.
As if you get an MOT tester that is having an off day they could well just stick a fail on it for the sake of it and cause a headache that you need not have had.

The alignment is easy to do in a Defender with the adjustment screws but it’s the alignment location and angle of the beam in relation to parameters expected on the MOT.
You can get it nearly there by yourself against a door or something if you are lucky you can get it perfect.

This is what I did anyway, but chances are when you fit them yourself the beam alignment will be out whatever you do.
So fit them yourself get them roughly on but you can then get them aligned to precision.

Try and avoid just fitting them yourself and leaving them to MOT time or you could have a fail that easily corrected. ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️

14th Oct 2022 10:13pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17361

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

I think at this point I'd be contacting SP 4X4 since they appear to have sold you a defective product. Perhaps they've supplied a DOT version not an ECE version.

15th Oct 2022 7:24am

B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

Good advice there from Custom Steve. Thank you. I've been back to SP 4x4 and they say they have sold thousands and have offered a refund black wolf. That doesn't really help much as I have to start from scratch. They were only £66 a pair so no great outlay so maybe look for something better.
They are marked with E9 which is the Spain test number, E11 is uk but E marking is all about eelectromagnetic compatibility not functional testing.
Maybe worth pursuing with another garage or Halfords to get them alighned as a pre MOT job. "You are never to old to learn something new"

15th Oct 2022 8:01am

kenzle8a

Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: None
Posts: 1074

(

B4Lamb wrote:
Unfortunately my MOT tester failed the CRYSTAL LED HEADLIGHTS from SP 4x4 .
They failed on MOT test 4.1.2 c

Not good.
Maybe my mot tester was overly picky but he said they definitely do not conform to the UK MOT regulations on beam pattern.

Any comments on this would be welcome??

They look like the generic eBay / Alibaba specials that have flooded the market in recent years. IMO at that price you're taking a bit of a risk.

I had truck lites that passed an MOT with no issue, and again I had Wipac Crystals that I aligned against a barn wall that passed without a problem.

15th Oct 2022 8:07am

B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

Yes maybe lord haggis but most of these parts come from China anyway whatever price you pay. It will be good to hear from someone who has bought the same from SP 4x4 and got them through an MoT test. "You are never to old to learn something new"

15th Oct 2022 8:28am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17361

It would be interesting to see what the beam pattern looks like if you park up 20 feet or so from a wall. It should be pretty obvious if it is drastically wrong.

15th Oct 2022 8:33am

B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

This is how they are marked. If it helps anyone explain it.

Click image to enlarge "You are never to old to learn something new"

15th Oct 2022 9:08am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17361

Those markings mean diddly squat on their own, and certainly don't mean the lights are legal.

The full compliance marking requires in addition;

1) Code for country which has done the approval (E + number in a circle, and E9 appears to be Spain)

2) The UNECE regulation number which is 43R

3) The actual approval number typically 4-6 digits.

You will also find the manufacturers name on the glass.

There is a large number of generic Chinesium knock-off lights with misleading and usually fraudulent markings on the market in the UK at present, and it seems as though you may have some. It's entirely possible that SP 4X4 has itself been hoodwinked.

It's a shame that Leeds (Brendan) is no longer an active poster since this was very much his specialist subject.

15th Oct 2022 9:54am

jpboost

Member Since: 13 Apr 2021
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 377

2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

blackwolf wrote:
It would be interesting to see what the beam pattern looks like if you park up 20 feet or so from a wall. It should be pretty obvious if it is drastically wrong.

Completely agree.

I was thinking of picking these up now they are in stock again at SP, but seeing the output would be really helpful .

My mot man is reasonably relaxed in terms of markings/stamps etc, but I don't want them if the beam pattern is poor.

15th Oct 2022 10:07am

B4Lamb

Member Since: 21 Mar 2015
Location: Abergavenny, Wales
Posts: 233

I'm out of time for the wall experiment but a good friend has also bought and fitted a pair of these headlights and he is going to do the wall test and goto see his mate who is an MOT tester to get his opinion. The fact that they may be copies and do not carry all the markings that BlackWolf expects to see may not mean they do not meet the required MOT 4.2.1 beam pattern. My MOT test experience suggests they do not comply but I'd like that confirmed by others that have bought them. A sample of 1 is not good statistically.
SP 4x4 state they have sold thousands of them and have them on their own defenders. If that is the case there should be a lot of unhappy punters who bought them and failed there next MOT test.
If they do turn out to be illegal then perhaps trading standards will be interested? "You are never to old to learn something new"

15th Oct 2022 11:59am

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17361

To be legal the must have been approved, have the correct markings, and have a correct beam pattern. The MOT test only checks beam pattern so lights which pass are not necessarily legal. Lights which cannot pass the MOT test due to an unacceptable beam pattern (as opposed to alignment) cannot be legal whatever the markings purport to say.

It is entirely possible that whoever supplies SP 4x4 has supplied lights from different sources and the fact your lights are non-compliant does not necessarily mean all their lights have been. That being said "we've sold thousands and never had a problem" is the stock first response in these circumstances.

15th Oct 2022 12:33pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17361

Two other observations: firstly SP 4x4 doesn't say the lights are legal for road use in the UK, only that they are "E marked" which without elaboration is meaningless, and secondly those pictured on their website clearly have the required additional markings to the immediate right of the DOT SAE E* mark, which your lights do not appear to have.

On face value it would appear that the ones they illustrate are probably approved, legal, and compliant but those they have supplied to you are not.

As an aside, it's worth being mindful of the fact that ECE Regulation 48 Part 6.2.9. "Other requirements" says: "Dipped-beam headlamps with a light source or LED module(s) producing the principal dipped beam and having a total objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen shall only be installed in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45.”

Since SP 4x4 advertise a 2300 lumen dip beam, to be legal it would be necessary to have headlamp washers fitted. This is probably the case for all LED replacement headlamps, but again is not an MoT test item.

15th Oct 2022 12:42pm

custom90

Member Since: 21 Jan 2010
Location: South West, England.
Posts: 20325

If they have an E mark for Spain, could that not mean they are approved for the LHD market and thus LHD beam pattern and not RHD and RHD beam pattern for U.K. market.

Or are the approvals just done in xx country whichever manufacturer chooses?
Again anything DOT approved (USA) can be LHD based also which is the wrong beam pattern for us us on U.K. roads.

I’m not sure what the E mark numbers are on mine. ⭐️⭐️God Bless the USA 🇬🇧🇺🇸 ⭐️⭐️

15th Oct 2022 9:05pm

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