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Kez

Member Since: 11 Apr 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 271

Code 1103 - after replacing MAF sensor

Finally got around to replacing my MAF sensor, cost £40 inc vat from main dealer - 15 miles down the road and guess what, get engine light again - same code showing on scangauge (1103).

Aghhhh, have I just wasted £40, if so what else could it be.

Last edited by Kez on 26th Oct 2011 5:30pm. Edited 1 time in total

26th Oct 2011 8:28am

dgardel

Member Since: 30 Nov 2008
Location: Veneto (Heart & Head)
Posts: 3586

Re: Code 1103 - after replacing MAF sensor

Kez wrote:
Finally got around to replacing my MSF sensor, cost £40 inc vat from main dealer - 15 miles down the road and guess what, get engine light again - same code showing on scangauge (1103).

Aghhhh, have I just wasted £40, if so what else could it be.

P1103 MAF Sensor In Range But Higher Than Expected

Should be related to the EGR Valve (If stuck the MAF dectect more air flow than expected...) Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition

IID Pro MV License

26th Oct 2011 9:48am

K9F

Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Stornoway Grey

Kez,

Don't know if you've done any modifications but this code and the MIL light without a reoccurence will normally clear itself after a few driving cycles. I get it occasionally too and simply reset it! I can't expect owt else with EGR partially blocked with an 8mm blank, ITG performance filter, Autologic remap, decat no backbox and a straight through centre box. Me and the P1103 are like old friends and meet quite a few times each year! Does seem to happen more as the weather gets colder! I wouldn't be overly concerned if I were you!

Just noticed you've been having this issue since May. I would possibly pop the air filter cover off and check it is seated correctly and or it's not damaged and the airbox is not allowing air in from anywhere else and bypassing the filter. Again nothing much to worry about but I do know how annoying it can be! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

Last edited by K9F on 26th Oct 2011 10:07am. Edited 1 time in total

26th Oct 2011 9:58am

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

P1103 Mass Air Flow Sensor In Range But Higher Than Expected

Several things that can throw up this code are:

Faulty ECU.
Corroded connection at MAF plug.
Short in MAF Harness.
RAI/Snorkel as they increase air flow.
After market performance Air filter as they increase Air flow.
Faulty MAF sensor. http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic8715.html

If you have a IR thermometer, start engine then remove MAF whilst still connected. Place laser inside the MAF inlet in direction of flow and take a temp reading. It should show 200C plus the ambient air temp.If the IR doesn't pick up a rise in temp, test on the bottom bit of plastic of the MAF sensor as this houses the hot wire. It will be warmer than the rest of the housing showing you that there is a heat source working. If it does then the hot wire/film element is working. On scangauge if you can get the sensor to show Air Intake temp in C then the ambient temp sensor is working so you will know the MAF sensor is not the problem. Another option is to use a DMM that can display Hz. Take a reading of the MAF pin by back probing and noting the reading at tick over. Then increase revs and the value should rise as well, if so the output values to the ECU are OK.

Click image to enlarge

Click image to enlarge

In the first diagram you can see the MAF sensor with inputs and outputs. The MAF works by the Hot wire/film principal in that the hot wire is heated to 200C plus the ambient air temp (AAT/AIT). As air passes over the wire it cools and the ECU increases current to the wire to maintain the 200C + AAT/AIT. The extra current drawn to maintain the temp is what the ECU uses to determine the Air flow against stored values in its map.

Or is it possible you may have put the new MAF in the wrong way around?

Click image to enlarge

HTH Brian.

Last edited by Lorryman100 on 26th Oct 2011 12:35pm. Edited 1 time in total

26th Oct 2011 10:05am

K9F

Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

Blimey Lorryman....You are the 'font of all' when it comes to MAF sensors...handy to know.

I forgot to add snorkel, that'll be me totally bu993red I got one of them as well!

If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

26th Oct 2011 10:10am

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

I need to get out more, I know this now. Tell me? What are these things called women and beer? Am I missing out?

26th Oct 2011 10:31am

K9F

Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

Lorryman100 wrote:
I need to get out more, I know this now. Tell me? What are these things called women and beer? Am I missing out?

Not really!

Can cause you more trouble and strife! If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

Last edited by K9F on 26th Oct 2011 2:59pm. Edited 1 time in total

26th Oct 2011 1:20pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

I forgot to add that over a period of time the wire can become covered in burnt on microscopic particles that make it through the air filter and will cause unreliable readings to the ECU as the sensor has become insulated. There has been discussions on whether or not oil covered performance air filters quicken the demise of the MAF, but K&N did a serious of tests on this subject here and here

Brian.

26th Oct 2011 2:42pm

Kez

Member Since: 11 Apr 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 271

Thanks all,and no its in the right way around (even I am spotted the airflow arrow). I don't have a cat or central box, would that affect it perhaps?

Interesting thing is I have now done 300 miles with new sensor fitted and have noticed a significant improvement in MPG (same route / conditions etc every day). Has gone from 26mpg average to 32mpg

26th Oct 2011 5:33pm

K9F

Member Since: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 9610

Kez wrote:
I don't have a cat or central box, would that affect it perhaps?

Definately!

Although ther will undoubtedly be others who may perhaps disagree or have the same - no cat, no central box and no code(s). If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

26th Oct 2011 7:03pm

tatra805

Member Since: 16 Aug 2011
Location: Dolany
Posts: 436

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Bonatti Grey

Hi

going to throw in my experiences with this specific issue.

The story in short,

Bought the 110 and drove it home for 1600kms without problems, it is a 2007 and had 59 000km

In the next days while waiting for the paperwork and license plates i installed the mantec RAI.
Drove to the technical control and MIL light came on.

LR dealer erased the code, diagnosis was or MAF but most probably EGR valve

In the mean time i had found Defender2 and searched everything i could find related to this issue.
I got the impression it was going to be the EGR valve after reading all the threads.

Kept driving for another 5000km while monitoring behavior, consumption and EGR functionality (using a scangauge).

I had an increase from 10 to 12 liters/100km(effective not through scangauge) when the EGR stuck to readout value 100. So i had to start the car multiple times till the EGR stuck on a value less than 30 to get back to the 10 l/100km consumption.

I dismantled the EGR and looked at it while running the engine, all was working as it should and the valve was clean. (cleaning cycle runs ok etc)

I drove around without RAI to see if that would make a difference, no. RAI back on.

Tried cleaning the MAF, no change.

After reading this dedicated thread i finally went to the dealer for a new MAF.

The change is instant. Where the EGR valve used to be stuck on some random value (although most of the time at 100) it is now dynamic, say between 10 and 30 while driving with 100 values at full throttle and on heavy overrun.

Engine runs smoother also on idle jack and in low range less urging etc (i thought it to be normal and now realize it was not) Much more enjoyable drive.

So guess I can end with saying big thanks for sharing

27th Oct 2011 3:12pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

When everything is working as advertised the Duratorq engine runs like a little sweetie, but when one sensor starts giving erroneous readings or none at all, I have found symptoms start appearing that have nothing to do with the faulty sensor causing the problem in the first place. A faulty MAF leads to more fuel being burnt and more/less air than is needed as the EMS is then relying on its stored values to compensate for the lost data. This can lead you to think the EGR is to blame as it is staying open longer at high revs when it should be closed because the EMS is not getting the correct info from the MAF sensor and is relying on the stored data rather than the real time data the MAF should be supplying. Another example would be turbo over/under boost which could lead you to think the turbo/modulator/actuator is at fault but chances are it is the MAP sensor that is causing the problem. The sensors are designed to aid the running of the engine via the EMS but when something goes wrong, then it is a matter of checking the outputs of the most likely candidates before spending a lot of money on replacing what could be, the wrong part. We are a little lucky with the Defender Puma as there are not too many things that can go wrong electrically in what is basically a modern engine and if you have the correct diagnostic tools, it even tells you what is wrong with it, or at least gives you a good starting place to fault find. I see the electrics side of the EMS as the biggest headache in fault finding unless you have a decent DMM and a handheld vehicle oscilloscope to interpret the data being received, though this doesn't help if you have nothing to compare it against, so take some sensor readings next time you have a spare half hour and note them down, then when checking for a fault you already have the sensor outputs to compare to see if that sensor is indeed causing the issue.
So I guess what I am trying to say is that you should keep an open mind as to what is causing the problem before settling on what you think it is, when you get an issue, think of what could cause these symptoms then go out and check each part that can cause it, that way you learn a little more about your defender and gain a little more confidence in your own fault finding abilities, and if you are out of warranty you can also save yourself a few quid.

Brian

PS: I'll apologize now for the above drivel I have written

27th Oct 2011 6:06pm

tatra805

Member Since: 16 Aug 2011
Location: Dolany
Posts: 436

Lorryman100, i agree 100% with you, and it is thanks to posts as yours the forum has its value, and gives a novice as me some insight in the mystics of our defenders.

BTW you also perfectly keep the balance not getting into the 'tuning'debate. I do fully understand and support the reasoning against the EGR principle and forgot to mention in my post that i considered having my problems solved by a remap. This would not have solved the issue.

Regarding the OP his observations, I also have a decat and midbox replacement and as concluded now even with a RAI the MAF is working as it is supposed to be. Probably no help for you except that in combination with Lorryman100 his posts there might be another cause for the fault code you get.

I would suggest, if you dont have the possibility to reset the codes with a diagnostic tool, to go through the restart cycles before taking other actions. My sources told me that triggering a MIL is done after 3 fault cycles but canceling a MIL can take more cycles or a completion of a number of conditions before it happens (so 3 times starting the car will not reset the MIL, you'll need to drive a preset number of conditions before the ECU decides the defect is gone and switches off the mill)
So it might be necessary to make a couple of good drives before the mil resets.

good luck!

27th Oct 2011 10:32pm

degi80

Member Since: 24 Apr 2011
Location: MT
Posts: 24

2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 PU Chawton White

Lorryman100 wrote:
When everything is working as advertised the Duratorq engine runs like a little sweetie, but when one sensor starts giving erroneous readings or none at all, I have found symptoms start appearing that have nothing to do with the faulty sensor causing the problem in the first place. A faulty MAF leads to more fuel being burnt and more/less air than is needed as the EMS is then relying on its stored values to compensate for the lost data. This can lead you to think the EGR is to blame as it is staying open longer at high revs when it should be closed because the EMS is not getting the correct info from the MAF sensor and is relying on the stored data rather than the real time data the MAF should be supplying. Another example would be turbo over/under boost which could lead you to think the turbo/modulator/actuator is at fault but chances are it is the MAP sensor that is causing the problem. The sensors are designed to aid the running of the engine via the EMS but when something goes wrong, then it is a matter of checking the outputs of the most likely candidates before spending a lot of money on replacing what could be, the wrong part. We are a little lucky with the Defender Puma as there are not too many things that can go wrong electrically in what is basically a modern engine and if you have the correct diagnostic tools, it even tells you what is wrong with it, or at least gives you a good starting place to fault find. I see the electrics side of the EMS as the biggest headache in fault finding unless you have a decent DMM and a handheld vehicle oscilloscope to interpret the data being received, though this doesn't help if you have nothing to compare it against, so take some sensor readings next time you have a spare half hour and note them down, then when checking for a fault you already have the sensor outputs to compare to see if that sensor is indeed causing the issue.
So I guess what I am trying to say is that you should keep an open mind as to what is causing the problem before settling on what you think it is, when you get an issue, think of what could cause these symptoms then go out and check each part that can cause it, that way you learn a little more about your defender and gain a little more confidence in your own fault finding abilities, and if you are out of warranty you can also save yourself a few quid.

Brian

PS: I'll apologize now for the above drivel I have written

Hi Brian,

frikkin' hindsight!! ...would have been brilliant had i taken a list of the standard readings....BUT obviously I only read this really informative post AFTER i encountered issue!!

do you have the standard readings for the MAF on idling for a 2007 2.4 tdci ? mine is idling at around 5 g/s and raised at 15000rpm it goes up to around 18 - 22 g/s.

Won't allow me to rev any higher....hence the issue i'm having.... http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic28848.html

Regards
Mark

14th May 2014 11:07pm

Lorryman100

Member Since: 01 Oct 2010
Location: Here
Posts: 2686

Sent pm

15th May 2014 9:24am

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