 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > mystery shrapnel in transmission oil |
 
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| 24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167   
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Hi All,
Hope everyone's well. Changed the gearbox, transfer box and diff oils yesterday. Drained them all into one pan. They all looked clear at the time but now when I'm decanting into containers to take to the recycle centre I spotted some shrapnel. 
I didn't notice it in the pan to start with so assume it must be from 1 of the above. Aside from a few small filings on the magnetic diff drain plugs I didn't notice anything while I was changing them all. I think the gearbox might be the only one without a magnetic plug. The vehicle drives beautifully (well for a defender anyway  ).
Gear changes are smooth and no weird noises or feelings. I know it's a bit of a needle in a haystack but anyone recognise the shape of the larger piece? Should I be worried (probably...) There were no other pieces at all. Thanks for looking. 
[/url] Cheers, Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com |
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28th Aug 2022 9:52am |
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| 24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167
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Hi Ian, Sorry should've said - they are attracted to a magnet so I would've expected them to have stuck to the diff plugs if they originated from there.
thanks... Cheers, Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com |
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28th Aug 2022 10:05am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414  
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Possibly a tooth from a side gear or spider gear that are in the differential.
Try to jack one rear wheel only, and handbrake off, gearbox in neutral (chocked wheels), spin that one wheel and try to feel for any notchiness. Try one of the front wheels too. The main gearbox has a magnet buried inside. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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28th Aug 2022 10:08am |
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| 24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167
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Hi Dinnu, thanks for the suggestion - just tried that and all 4 wheels rotate smoothly Cheers,
Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com |
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28th Aug 2022 11:33am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17382  
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Sadly there can be no doubt whatsoever that that is debris from a fairly significant tooth break-up, but it is probably not possible to tell where it is from just by looking at the fragment in photos.
The gears most likely to spontaneously disintegrate on a Puma, especially a long-wheelbase one, are in the front diff, which is almost certainly a two-gear diff. Since failure of this can (as Landrover would say) result in "a reduction of control" of the vehicle, it is probably the first thing I would check. You may be able to get a satisfactory visual check through the filler hole if you can rotate on front wheel whilst peering it. You need to check that the ring gear is intact, and also the side gears and differential gears which may be harder to see. If you can look also for elongation of the cross-pin hole and displacement of the cross-pin. It is very likely that if the front diff is starting to break up you will be able to see some warning signs. Dropping the front diff out for a thorough check is rather more involved due to the need to separate the swivel hubs for the axle to withdraw the half-shafts, but can be done in about 4 hours. A catastrophic failure of the rear diff, the transfer box, or the main gearbox, whilst inconvenient and expensive, is unlikely to endanger life. My front diff disintegrated whilst I was driving and resulted in an almost total loss of steering capability, a very unpleasant experience. I was lucky in that the differential gears locked solid so in effect I had a solid front axle (both wheels still rotated though) so the vehicle simply wanted to go in a dead straight line. It was also an exceptionally wet day, which was lucky because there was reduced grip between the tyre and the road which meant that with extreme effort it was still possible to steer whilst moving. Finally I was lucky because I was only a mile from home, with only one roundabout to negotiate. There is an almost infinite number of ways in which it could have been worse. |
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28th Aug 2022 12:54pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3641 
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I'm also thinking differential gear
these are the first and easiest things to check anyway DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS, I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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28th Aug 2022 1:53pm |
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| 24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167
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Thanks all for the really helpful responses and guidance - I'll investigate properly tomorrow.
I guess I might be able to get 1 of those iPhone endoscope cameras in there to have a look round. Cheers, Andy... Cheers, Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com |
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28th Aug 2022 3:03pm |
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| 24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167
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Ok, looks like we have a winner
Bought a cheapo endoscope for the iPhone from toolfix/screwstation this morning. Tricky to navigate, but you can clearly (well, when I say clearly...) see there's at least 1 damaged tooth on each of the gears at the ends of the pin (locating holes look fine btw  ).
So, I guess it's a replacement diff for me
This always happens just after I buy myself something nice - just fitted a new CarPlay stereo - it's like the land rover gods are punishing me 
But thank goodness I'm so religious about changing the oils regularly. There's a link to the video below - exciting bit is at :43 and 1:07. Cheers again for all your help guys.
https://youtu.be/4IaK6kfp2H0 Cheers, Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com |
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29th Aug 2022 2:19pm |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3414
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Good find. Is that the front or rear?
Get a 4 pin or ATB diff from one if the good aftermarket houses in the UK. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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29th Aug 2022 2:33pm |
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| 24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167
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front
Cheers,
Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com |
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29th Aug 2022 2:36pm |
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| Ianh Member Since: 17 Sep 2018 Location: Essex Posts: 2004
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Ashcroft transmissions are well worth a call.
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29th Aug 2022 3:16pm |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3641
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ATB all the way (might pull a bit when new though) DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS,
I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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29th Aug 2022 5:44pm |
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| 24heuer Member Since: 21 Jul 2015 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 167
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Hi all,
The diff was swapped out yesterday and as you can see from the photos the old one wasn't in great shape - a few badly damaged teeth on the spider gears either side of the stud. Having a poke around it looks like the drivers side gear might be loose in the casing - the other side sits nice and tight - maybe this was the cause as there's definite lateral movement. So glad it's sorted - a lesson here to regularly change your diff oil and don't rely on the magnetic drain plug to catch all the shrapnel - mine was clean and it was only that I noticed the metal glinting in the oil pan as I was decanting it to take to the recycling centre. If it wasn't for that I'd be none the wiser. Anyway, thanks all for the great help and advice - in the end I actually went for a 4 pin diff. Cheers, Andy...
Cheers,
Andy... Edinburgh, Scotland http://24heuer.com |
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18th Sep 2022 10:05am |
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| LR90XS2011 Member Since: 05 Apr 2011 Location: bickenhill Posts: 3641
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lucky spot DEFENDER 90 TDCI XS, I hope everyone is well and your land rovers make you happy |
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18th Sep 2022 12:46pm |
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