 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Qu: Why do airlift 1000 helpers limit articulation so much? |
 
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| ibexman Member Since: 13 Dec 2008 Location: Essex Posts: 2945  
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Under compression there’s nowhere for the air in the bag to go
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24th Aug 2022 2:38pm |
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| MercianRover Member Since: 07 Apr 2022 Location: Culworth Posts: 141 
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Maybe add a cross-linking valve so that under differential compression the air can pass from one side to the other.
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24th Aug 2022 3:38pm |
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| Bluest Member Since: 23 Apr 2016 Location: Lancashire Posts: 4209 
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Air springs with no external control over the mass of gas within the bag are "rising-rate". I.e the more you compress them the stiffer they get. So I would assume that at extreme angles when the bag and road spring is getting close to fully compressed the rate is so high the weight of the car can't compress it all the way. The solution might be cross linking the bags, as suggested but that would mean the airbags give no help in stabilising body roll on the vehicle as the airbags would have very little to no roll resistance. You then might need a stiffer anti-roll bar which gives the same issue of restricting articulation you had before.
I'm leaning towards air bags in the back of my 110 as I have a similar problem to you, but if I do it my approach will be to err on the low pressure side when it comes to inflating them. 2007 110 TDCi Station Wagon XS |
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24th Aug 2022 4:28pm |
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| MercianRover Member Since: 07 Apr 2022 Location: Culworth Posts: 141
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Unless you add a restrictor or pressure regulator in thy cross link...
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24th Aug 2022 7:06pm |
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| markb110 Member Since: 22 May 2010 Location: Guildford Posts: 2636  
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My old 110 with the rear wheel stuffed as far as it will go.
The new Defender on air springs at full off road height looks ungainly because there is no upwards travel. So instead of 'walking' over uneven terrain it can look like a Doris walking up a gravel drive in stupidly high heels.  Click image to enlarge At standard height as others have mentioned have the ability to move the air from one side to the other hence allowing both upwards and downwards travel across the same axle. I can only imagine then you would need to move from a manual system to a computer control system set up and the complexity that goes with it. |
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24th Aug 2022 7:34pm |
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| Horneteer Member Since: 10 Feb 2015 Location: Cornwall Posts: 60 
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I have Airlift 1000 on the rear springs on the 90. I run them at 5 psi when empty, then inflate to 20 psi when towing the Ifor horsebox, the ride is then much more stable.
The kit came with 2 fill valves, a tee and plenty of hose. If they're fitted with 2 fill valves, ie 1 to each air bag then there would be the articulation issues discussed. However if fitted with 1 fill valve supplying the tee then one leg off the tee to each air bag, you've got your cross link and a guarantee that the same pressure is in each bag. 
Hope that helps Paul |
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24th Aug 2022 7:37pm |
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 680
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Thank you all for your responses.
To add to the knowledge pool... It is possible to purchase a kit direct from Airlift, with the modified top mount for the bag, as individual parts, listed below. 1 of: https://intermotiv.com/load-support/univer...67-x-137mm 1 of: https://intermotiv.com/load-support/load-s...pgrade-kit 2 of: https://intermotiv.com/load-support/air-li...mm-x-127mm The chap at Air Lift was supremely helpful. The modified top mount for the bag is made by intermotiv as a solution that Air Lift didn't want to include in their kit. I think i plan to follow your advice and go with a single link and inflation. Given that I plan to purchase the disconnecting anti-roll bar from X-Deflex, that should solve my body roll problems on road, and allow the air helpers to do the levelling, but mean i still get flex when i go offroad as i can disconnect the bar. That seems to be the best of all worlds potentially? What do you reckon? |
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25th Aug 2022 4:22pm |
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| donmacn Member Since: 06 Nov 2017 Location: Nth Scotland Posts: 1841 
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Sounds like a plan. In fact….
I fitted air helpers this springtime as I was going to be loading the car up for a camping trip to France. I followed the instructions that ‘jocklandjohn’ had posted on the LR4x4 forum, with photos, and made the DIY modifications to the top mounts. No great problems with that. I’ve been meaning to post some updates to my own rebuild/resto thread, just haven’t got round to it. I’ve been very happy with the way they fitted, and how the car drives with them on. I think I was up at 15psi on the trip, down lower than that now as the camping kit’s been taken out. They are fitted with one valve serving both bags. I fitted the helpers principally because I swapped from ‘heavy duty’ springs to the progressive Station Wagon ones. Empty, the car was a bit harsh and uncomfortable over bumps; I’m hoping that when the tent comes off in the next few weeks, and the car is empty again, that I’ll feel the benefit of the softer springs, with the option to pump up the helpers if I need to. So, very happy until…. I went to the Land Rover Experience weekend in Dunkeld a few or three weeks ago. Nothing broke or went wrong, and the car did all I asked of it including their ‘rock pavement’, even with the roof tent and all the camping kit onboard, and with the airlift kit and standard anti-roll bar. However I did wonder of perhaps a little more axle articulation would have helped. So I’ve been wondering about the ‘Deflex’ anti-roll bar too, instead of the standard one I have fitted. I guess this seems to me to be the best of all worlds - better road manners; and easier to prepare for any off road excursions. Donald 1994 Defender 300Tdi 110 SW - owned since 2002 - 230k miles and going strong (The 'rolling restoration' or tinkering thread: http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic58538.html ) 2000 Range Rover P38 4.0L V8 in the past.. RR classic - fitted with 200Tdi 1984 RR classic - V8 with ZF auto box 1993 Discovery 300Tdi not to mention the minis and the Type 2 VW camper... |
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25th Aug 2022 4:41pm |
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 680
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Oh no.
You weren't meant to agree with me.... 
That's now £174 + postage and £329 + postage...... Thanks for the thoughts, glad you reckon it's a good plan. Good to hear they've worked OK for you too. Apparently the height of the spring and spacers is 305mm, so I just need to measure my springs but I can't imagine even with my OME springs as they are they'll be more than that spring seat to spring seat. |
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25th Aug 2022 5:47pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8027 
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I have run helper springs in my 110 for 80k miles. Total game changer when towing. 10psi unladed. 30psi when loaded up. 2010 2.4 use std rear progressive purple/browns. I teach off reading with it and don't find problems at 10 psi. Each plumbed independently. One bag failed at 60k miles.
Have fitted same to my 130 which is heavy. They are 15psi unladed upto 35psi laden or towing. Aga8n no off road issues. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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26th Aug 2022 4:03pm |
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