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Jpu121265

Member Since: 13 Aug 2022
Location: Normandie
Posts: 8

TD5 Defender poor starting

Hi guys, first post here, with a problem that is doing my head in on my mates TD5 Defender 90. It's a 1999 TD5 90, to cut a long story short it's on its third engine, still a 10P block.

The symptoms were originally that it wouldn't start when it was hot. And by wouldn't start I mean it could turn over for a minute if you wanted and not get anywhere.

So far have changed;

Fuel filter (twice)
Fuel pressure regulator (it did have a slight leak)
Starter motor (last one burnt out from repeatedly trying it)
Crank position sensor (for a known good one)
Gauze and O ring behind filter regulator
Air bleed valve on filter housing
Injector seals and injector loom for genuine parts

Have dropped the tank and disconnected fuel lines and blown them through, they're all clear. The in tank pump seems ok with no untoward noises and the wiring is fine.

Have checked wiring from switch/starter, and battery/starter, checked all earths and even added a jump lead from battery earth to block.

When running it runs fine with no lack of power/smoke, anything untoward. After changing the injector seals it started on the nail for about a week, then it started to come back again. This time, I thought it was a failing battery (it had two wired up in parallel and I only reconnected one). So reconnected the other battery and it did start but soon the problem reared its head again. It's almost as though the engine is firing on the wrong stroke, like on a petrol engine when the timing is out, sort of 'fighting' itself. When cold, after the fourth or so turn of the key it will start on the nail, but when hot it is a lot harder to start. However it will start every time of it's bumped or towed.

Unfortunately I don't have access to diagnostics for it, I have a code reader but it can't access the TD5 ECU (it's an Icarsoft so a generic one), I don't know anyone in my area with a nanocom or Hawkeye, if anyone can recommend a code reader that will read a TD5 that doesn't cost the earth and will just tell me RPM and read engine fault codes I'd be greatful!

So far I can only think that one of the batteries has a collapsed cell or something so I am going to try one good fully charged battery today. Or the crank position sensor wiring is damaged and is giving the wrong information to the ECU or something and telling it to fire at the wrong moment. But I am clutching at straws now.

13th Aug 2022 5:14am

4RF RDS

Member Since: 19 Jul 2015
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 932

2000 Defender 110 Td5 XS CSW Epsom Green

I have an iCarsft 930 it will read clear and show live data. It works perfectly on my 99 Td5. They sell uber cheap on eBay. The latest model is iCarsoft LR 3.0.

Good luck 2010 Range Rover MkIII Autobiography Super Charged (Idris)
2003 Range Rover Mk III (Desmond FitzWilliam)
2000 Defender 110 CSW TD5 (CTX)
1992 Range Rover Classic (Lizzy)
1972 Series III 300 Tdi (Stanwood)
1967 MGB GT

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)

13th Aug 2022 7:04pm

4RF RDS

Member Since: 19 Jul 2015
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 932

13th Aug 2022 7:05pm

lightning

Member Since: 23 Apr 2009
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Posts: 2758

Faulty battery causing too much of a voltage drop when starting, or faulty alternator which messes up the ECU

Have you changed the crank position sensor? And was the replacement starter motor a new one? As an electrically "noisy" starter can cause the same issues.

I had the same fault on our 2005 TD5, after changing everything it turned out to be the starter . lt started the vehicle okay but caused issues with the ECU

13th Aug 2022 8:12pm

Jpu121265

Member Since: 13 Aug 2022
Location: Normandie
Posts: 8

Thanks for the replies.

The code reader I'm using is an Icarsoft CR MAX, when plugged in it will only offer Lucas GEMS as a powertrain ECU and won't connect. I believe the GEMS is for the V8 as fitted to Discoverys. Have spoken to Icarsoft support about it and the concensus seems to be that it is unable to connect as the TD5 ECU is not fully OBDII compliant. I guess I could buy another Icarsoft reader but I'm a bit reluctant to buy another version of the same product I already have!

The alternator was replaced around two years ago and shows 14V when running/after starting. It had two batteries, I only reconnected one. Then wired then both in, tried the other then tried the battery out of mine and it doesn't seem to make a difference. The crank position sensor I pulled out of another TD5 that starts/runs fine, so I don't think it's the sensor itself, but could be the wiring.

Replacement starter motor was brand new. I still have the old one, I'm pretty sure it only needs a solenoid kit but I can't seem to find one over here so I could try cleaning it up and putting the original starter motor back on.

13th Aug 2022 11:30pm

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414

2012 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 CSW Santorini Black

Have you done a compression or leak down test?

Just out of curiosity, what happened to the previous 2 engines? Td5s are generally very reliable and long lasting. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

14th Aug 2022 3:26am

Jpu121265

Member Since: 13 Aug 2022
Location: Normandie
Posts: 8

Hi, no compression test. It runs sweet as a nut when it's running. Not sure how to perform a leakoff test on TD5 injectors? I'll look into it.

The original engine died when a hose blew (presumably coolant hose). Another second hand unit was fitted by a garage, but it never ran properly, it was then passed on to another English mechanic who fitted, supposedly, a 'reconditioned bottom end' (not sure of any firms that exist who do a recon block only so I suspect it's another second hand unit).

14th Aug 2022 5:08am

Dinnu

Member Since: 24 Dec 2019
Location: Lija
Posts: 3414

A leak down test determines if there are leakages either past the piston rings, or the valves. Different from injector leakage. Cranking is slower than idling, small leakages will not affect idling, but starting could become problematic.

My old 90 had massive cracks in the pistons, but ran sweetly once started (barring the fumes), probably sweeter than new since there was not so much of compression to make any big bang.

Bad luck with the coolant hose. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black

14th Aug 2022 7:19am

Jpu121265

Member Since: 13 Aug 2022
Location: Normandie
Posts: 8

I'll have a look, obviously can't use the heater plugs as there's only four so not a meaningful test. I guess it means finding a competition tester to fit where the injectors go, and removing the fuel pump relay and cranking.

I would be very interested to see what the cranking RPM is, but a bit loathed to fork out €650 odd just to find that out! Asked a few garages and no one has any diag that is compatable. I'm sure my old Delphi could tell me a few basic things like injector misfire and the like.

14th Aug 2022 9:26am

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