 | Home > Off Topic > Money Laundering |
 
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298   
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any experts on money laundering out there?
I suspect someone I know has been money laundering without even realising it. Just wondering what your take is whether it would qualify as such or not? first scenario; son gives money each month to father to pay for hp car. money comes out of sons bank account into fathers account and father pays monthly instalments on the basis that son can't get credit for car. second scenario; son gives money each month to father to pay for hp car. money comes out of sons bank account (money has effectively come from corrupt business that amongst other things hasn't paid tax) into fathers account and father pays monthly instalments on the basis that son can't get credit for car. any thoughts? |
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31st Jul 2022 9:29am |
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| DSC-off Member Since: 16 Oct 2014 Location: North East Posts: 1402  
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I'm no expert, but scenario 1, No. Scenario 2, Yes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering In the past, the term "money laundering" was applied only to financial transactions related to organized crime. Today its definition is often expanded by government and international regulators such as the US Office of the Comptroller of the Currency to mean "any financial transaction which generates an asset or a value as the result of an illegal act", which may involve actions such as tax evasion or false accounting. In the UK, it does not even need to involve money, but any economic good. |
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31st Jul 2022 9:57am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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aha.
thank you. so if the money has not had tax paid it looks almost certainly to fall under the title of 'money laundering'. thank you.  |
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31st Jul 2022 10:00am |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3498 
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There are plenty of businesses Caterham, that don't pay Tax (or at least, not a lot of it comparable to their profit).
Large coffee chains and a well known online market place spring to the front of my mind 
I'm no expert but I would say Scenario 2 sound illegitimate. Now, whether the police would try to get a prosecution on such a small amount, I couldn't say. HMRC may be a different matter. |
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31st Jul 2022 10:50am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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Funds are from deliberately dissolved companies and no tax paid.
Father unknowingly receives what I would class as dirty money (noting above comment) and therefore, in my eyes is deemed as money laundering? yes relatively small sums of money, although we might be into 10s of £1ks. As you say policy might not be interested but who knows where it might go as receivers are asking questions? |
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31st Jul 2022 10:57am |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3498
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I agree Caterham, but this dissolving businesses to make money seems to be quite normal and hardly anyone ever seems to be prosecuted (albeit the Guy who bought and dissolved BHS did finally get prosecuted!)
In a past life I worked on developments for housing and commercial. It was normal practice for a developer to register a new (or several) businesses for that project. If the project became a problem, large debts or planning issues, there was no money in the bank accounts and the businesses were dissolved. Many businesses working on the projects would be out of pocket and within three to four months, the developments were back up and running and some of the time, the same faces were involved. It's criminal as far as I am concerned but there doesn't appear to be any kind of control to these people. Some of them are serial offenders who are doing this over and over again. Google their names on Companies House and there are pages of dissolved companies under their names. I think it stinks but I don't make the rules and as far as I can see, none of the three big political parties have any interest in stopping this merry go round. |
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31st Jul 2022 11:12am |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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I agree it absolutely stinks!
the morals (or lack of) is completely off the scale. I know one person whos done this 20 - 30 times. Been made personally bankrupt 3 times and still lives in a £3-5M house. Utterly amazed how they've got away without being shot if I'm honest. Took a lender for £10M in one hit, and as you say its all on companies house  |
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31st Jul 2022 12:26pm |
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| Birdy Member Since: 07 Oct 2011 Location: Côte d'Azur Posts: 865  
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“I know one person whos done this 20 - 30 times. Been made personally bankrupt 3 times and still lives in a £3-5M house. Utterly amazed how they've got away without being shot if I'm honest”
As long ago as fifty years, one of my biggest customers went bust, owing me and many others squillions; we never got paid a penny. Within a month, he'd re-started the same business, sourcing the same components from the same suppliers, including myself. What ya gonna do, turn away good money because he’s been a bad boy (of course, it was C.O.D. from then on!)? But the real pee-take was that the orders and correspondence came through on even the same headed note-paper, but with “Jones Ltd” over-written by a cheap “Jones Successors Ltd” stamp. Nothing changes, who in business (myself included) hasn’t split up companies with one invoicing the other for “Consultancy Fees”, “Rent”, “Administration Costs” etc., total real costs and profit remaining the same, but the overall tax liabilities being less than if it had been one company. Subsequently PAYE, no opportunity for “legal fiddles”! |
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31st Jul 2022 1:17pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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Eerrrm. Me I think. Perhaps thats where I'm going wrong in life. |
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31st Jul 2022 1:21pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3498
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What's worse is when the company is then shifted to the wife or daughter and exactly the same trick is pulled. Sometimes it is not clear that the villain is still up to their old tricks (especially when the wife/daughters surname is different). These people seem to take pleasure in ruining peoples lives, businesses and livelihoods and there is no remorse.
Off subject a little, but in the same vein, I once worked for a very large engineering group (a multinational who are still around). They used their size and power to bully suppliers into astronomically long credit arrangements. And even then, they would never pay on time (if at all). We were continually 'on the stop'. The accounts department and higher management saw this as being very clever buy in truth, it was making the business so inefficient as work would be continually put off because materials or sub-contractors wouldn't arrive through lack of payment. They couldn't understand how we kept losing money. There was a lot of standing around and aborted trips (sometimes after quite considerable travel). Sometimes we had to drive another 20 miles each way to find a supplier we weren't on the stop with. Personally, it was just very embarrassing working for these idiots. It wasn't too bad (although morally incorrect) if you hadn't paid a large company. What was inexcusable was the people they really screwed were the one man bands. The little guy or girl trying to start up and get going. The one's whose houses were on the line, families directly impacted when the money wasn't paid. This was 25-30 years ago. I still have no respect for that company. I have no idea if they have changed their ways, I guess not? In the end, one of the Managers bought the company out. He was a management accountant and remarkably one of the first controls he put in place was to pay our suppliers (unless of course there was a valid reason to withhold the money!) He ran the company for ten years or so and it became a very profitable well respected company. |
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31st Jul 2022 1:54pm |
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| Caterham Member Since: 06 Nov 2008 Location: Birmingham Posts: 6298
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I'm not sure;
What's worse is when the company is then shifted to the wife or daughter and exactly the same trick is pulled. Sometimes it is not clear that the villain is still up to their old tricks (especially when the wife/daughters surname is different). These people seem to take pleasure in ruining peoples lives, businesses and livelihoods and there is no remorse. personally I think its worse when the same individual does the same thing time and again as if its perfectly acceptable !!  |
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1st Aug 2022 6:32pm |
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| kenzle8a Member Since: 12 Feb 2020 Location: None Posts: 1074 
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If you think the small scale stuff you can see is bad, it’s got nothing on the corporate structures and super rich with the family offices to funnel it about
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1st Aug 2022 7:43pm |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2150 
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Cough...........test & trace.........Cough.........
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1st Aug 2022 7:51pm |
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| kenzle8a Member Since: 12 Feb 2020 Location: None Posts: 1074
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The ppe contracts are also quite interesting…
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1st Aug 2022 9:54pm |
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