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andylee

Member Since: 29 Jun 2016
Location: South East
Posts: 92

Intermittent Non starter - Found dodgy earth...

Hi Guys I am in the process of trying to track down a strange intermittent starting issue and wonder if anyone can help with advise please with my 2003 Td5 90 CSW 1400000m

A while back after driving for 100miles and a brief stop for coffee the Landrover wouldn't crank or restart.

I had the known issue with a click of the solenoid on the first try and then when trying to start ignition after the initial click a variety of lights on the dash including hazards and fog lamp lit dimly but no click from the solenoid and no fuel pump priming and no cranking.
When getting out the car closing the doors and setting the central locking and alarm, to hopefully eliminate the immobiliser, the alarm would immediately go off.
Trying several times to start ignition I always had the same random lights on the dash and no fuel pump running.
Checked the relays under drivers seat, ECU plug for oil and disconnected and reconnected the battery and had same result. But then randomly after waiting another 10mins it lit the dashboard correctly ran the fuel pump and jumped into life and carried on like nothing had happened.
Subsequently it started and ran with no issues after that.
I had the battery and alternator checked at kwik fit and it seemed to be suppling enough voltage but not enough amps so I replaced the battery with like for like and took the precaution of fitting a solenoid rebuild kit from (XLR8) but will save you the story of the 10m bolt from hell for another time.
For two months I have had no issues and was happily motoring around with the smug feeling of having actually fixed the issue.
Then...
After another weekend of going about stuff and covering 300+ miles it decided again to click once on ignition and light up the dashboard with the random selection of lights previously mentioned and repeated the above tantrum over the space of two days each time restarting after waiting a while and disconnecting and reconnecting the battery. It then starts and runs with no issue for while until it doesn't...

So what am i looking for ??

I will be checking all the earths and wiring but are there any particular ones in the starting circuit to look at ? it would seen strange if it is a short somewhere that it fixes itself without any movement.
Once running it runs perfectly with no other electrical weirdness so just seems to be something on ignition..

is it possible that the solenoid is sticking and throwing an electrical fault thats causing an electrical tantrum ?

Is it possible there is a short in the ignition barrel due to wear and tear ?

Or should I replace the entire starter motor to eliminate that ? Ive been told that the starter is very robust and I have already rebuilt the solenoid but it is after all 20yrs old..

I will get the battery and alternator rechecked now that we are home again but would appreciate any thoughts or advise that any of you can share,

thanks in advance

Andy

Last edited by andylee on 21st Aug 2022 1:55pm. Edited 2 times in total

26th Jul 2022 8:14am

andylee

Member Since: 29 Jun 2016
Location: South East
Posts: 92

contd...

Ive had the starter motor off this morning to check and it all looks good, solenoid springs freely no sign of sticking so lightly lubricated moving parts. Cleaned the contacts on the starter (and the little thin plug) and checked the earth under drivers seat and gearbox to frame and anything else that looked earthy everything looks ok and it starts without issue this morning so bit of a mystery as to why its having occasional electrical tantrums on re ignition after a journey ....

26th Jul 2022 11:12am

LandRoverAnorak

Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

I'd take a look at the ignition switch on the end of the barrel and look for any heat damage to the contacts. Given the problem only seems to manifest itself after prolonged running, then it could be something heat related. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia

26th Jul 2022 1:01pm

CarMan

Member Since: 29 Nov 2010
Location: Cotswolds
Posts: 1860

Re: Intermittent Non starter No Cranking And weird Dash Ligh

andylee wrote:
Hi Guys I am in the process of trying to track down a strange intermittent starting issue and wonder if anyone can help with advise please with my 2003 Td5 90 CSW 1400000m

No help, sorry, but that's an awful lot of miles

Rob

1993 200tdi 90 hard-top
1998 300tdi 90 soft-top
2016 2.2 XS 90 hard-top (sold)

26th Jul 2022 1:38pm

andylee

Member Since: 29 Jun 2016
Location: South East
Posts: 92

LandRoverAnorak wrote:
I'd take a look at the ignition switch on the end of the barrel and look for any heat damage to the contacts. Given the problem only seems to manifest itself after prolonged running, then it could be something heat related.

Thanks Darren, after doing some research on your suggestion it seems highly likely and also fairly common that this could be the source of a short due to wear causing the ignition issue. I have had a good look around the barrel and ordered a new lucas switch and barrel clamp incase I fail with the tapping the shear bolts out (that have sheared) and have to cut the clamp.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge, will update when addressed
best
Andy

27th Jul 2022 9:48am

Browny90

Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 183

2004 Defender 90 200 Tdi SW Stornoway Grey

I would start on the main power wiring, I would also start from scratch, don't assume it's been checked properly if you haven't done it yourself..

So check your battery terminals are tight, check the starter wires are tight (I know you've had it off, but check again anyway) makes sure the wiring is actually crimped will into the connectors and terminals.

Check the engine earth strap!

Check the wires on the alternator are tight,
Check the battery earth lead is tight and the terminals are good,
check the battery voltage before and after starting, and not just on the the two terminals, check battery live and put the neg lead onto a good chassis earth instead.

check the wires are fitted and tight on the back of the ignition switch.

If all is well there, you need to start checking between all the above, so physically checking the cables from the battery to starter and alternator etc etc My 1986 90 is currently on a full rebuild, with new chassis, Paint etc.. Very much a hybrid, TD5 Chassis, tub & bulkhead with a 200TDI and LT77 GB Painted in Stornoway Grey

2 years off the road, but getting close to completion now

27th Jul 2022 10:30am

andylee

Member Since: 29 Jun 2016
Location: South East
Posts: 92

New ignition switch fitted, thank you to "LandRoverAnorak" for his previous detailed thread on how to do this as its quite a fiddle but totally do able with or without the help of a dremel.
I used a dremel with a small drill bit to create indents on the rounded off shear bolts and then knocked them round with a centre punch and a hammer.
This video was also useful and gave me some confidence in getting the job done.

Lets see if a new ignition switch solves the described issue.
best
A

30th Jul 2022 12:21pm

andylee

Member Since: 29 Jun 2016
Location: South East
Posts: 92

Well the new ignition switch didn't solve the issue as it once again had a electric tantrum this weekend.
Ive now ordered a new Denso starter as I've convinced myself there is a short in the starter..
so we'll see...

8th Aug 2022 6:40pm

andylee

Member Since: 29 Jun 2016
Location: South East
Posts: 92

New starter didn't fix the issue....another electric tantrum this morning and no luck getting it started.

On ignition the dash lights up and the fuel pump primes then clicks on first attempt of starting and after that a random selection of lights on the dash and nothing, no fuel pump and no click...
Been through all the relays swapping them around with a new one, they all seem to respond on ignition. Disconnected and reconnected the battery which has worked in the past but no luck so left the battery disconnected for a while as the alarm immediately goes off when I set the central locking..
stumped....
any suggestions welcome....
thanks
A

21st Aug 2022 11:02am

andylee

Member Since: 29 Jun 2016
Location: South East
Posts: 92

Ok after more digging around I decided to remove and clean the earth straps and the transfer box to chassis strap broke in my hand at the chassis terminal when i was undoing it. I had missed this when doing a visual check on them so hopefully and fingers crossed that has been the source of my electrical gremlin...
thanks
A

21st Aug 2022 1:54pm

andylee

Member Since: 29 Jun 2016
Location: South East
Posts: 92

and after all that here's the £5 fix...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222662654414?var=521515635828

28th Aug 2022 5:17pm

Penfold_6290

Member Since: 22 Sep 2021
Location: Dorset
Posts: 317

What a PITA! Glad you’re sorted though, how frustrating.

28th Aug 2022 7:57pm

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