 | Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Brake line....gutted! |
 
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| boxoftricks Member Since: 06 Feb 2019 Location: Home Counties Posts: 747   
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I'd replace them all. Never done lines on a defender but have on a cobra replica and straight forward as long as you carefully remove the old ones to template. Need a few specialist tools but I'm guessing a lot cheaper than genuine ones. No idea what other after markets are like.
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24th Jun 2022 4:36pm |
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| bear100 Member Since: 22 Mar 2010 Location: South Wales Posts: 1914  
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They are quite awkward to route to be honest, the rear one was a pitter to do, would have been nice and easy in the factory without the body on
The original are steel (or closely related to it) which means its quite flexible and difficult to kink, what worries me, if i make my own with copper there isn't enough support in the copper tube and it will kink when trying to pass many various obstacles? 2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8 2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI 2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone) 2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone) 1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone) 1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone) 1994 discovery 300tdi (gone) 90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone) Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone) |
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24th Jun 2022 4:49pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17372 
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You are better off using Kunifer, which is a cupro-nickel alloy, rather than copper pipe for hard brake lines. You should have no support issues if you replace steel hard lines with Kunifer hard lines using the original support clips and clip spacings and positions, and it is much easier to form into shape than steel lines (which have some additional problems when home-made). Kunifer will work-harden and therefore should not be bent repeatedly, but it doesn't work-harden as much as copper, which is the reason it is generally preferable to copper. Kunifer can be annealed, as can copper, and, being copper-based, both can be quenched from hot, about the only metal which can when annealing.
Your vehicle is not really old enough for brake lines to be failing through corrosion, so the first thin I would do is establish for sure why the hard line which has failed has failed. You post suggests that it has been chafing on the bodywork, and if this is the case it might be unnecessary to replace anything other than the pipe which has failed, although it might be a good idea to inspect the rest of the system. You might even be able to replace just the failed portion of the pipe which has failed, although quite often cutting and flaring the end of the good bit in situ on the vehicle is harder than making a complete new pipe. It really isn't difficult to make up brake pipes, but they are safety-critical (you don't say!  ) and need to be done right. A good flaring tool makes the job much easier and quicker, but a good flaring tool is expensive. Cheap flaring tools can, at least until they break, make good flares but tend to be slower and can be awkward flaring pipes on the vehicle in confined spaces.
There was a recent thread discussing the fabrication of brake lines where much of these things were mentioned. It is extraordinary how Defenders seem to know when the most annoying time to fail is! |
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24th Jun 2022 5:44pm |
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| The Zee Member Since: 26 May 2019 Location: Salisbury Posts: 289 
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I'm kind of new to owning a Defender so disregard this, if it pointless:
If the break is between the flexi hose and the caliper (a short lenght of hard line) then Pioneer 4x4 (https://www.pioneer4x4.com/) do a Stainless Steel overbrade kit with a banjo fitting direct to the caliper, that eliminates the hardline. I had this done on mine to eliminate that silly little bit of hard line. I really feel for the impact that this has had to both you and your son's visit to the Billing Show  Zaid-M
www.DefencePhotos.com 2014 Defender 110 Utility, 2.2 Puma, Indus Silver Not just transport more like a religion |
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24th Jun 2022 7:43pm |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 553 
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I have made some of my own brake pipes. I used kunifer pipe, a pipe flaring tool that was just over £25, brass fittings (though not sure if this is necessary) and a groved pulley to bend the pipe around.
I found having the original brake pipe made a huge difference as then you can copy it. I did anneal the ends of the pipe, though I have since been told you shouldn't need to. My truck is a 300tdi bitsa, so I am not sure how much more complicated your pipes are compared to mine, but I found it quite satisfying when my pipes matched the original. Cost wise its a big saving making your own - and if you do, don't forget to put the fitting on before flaring the pipe. |
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24th Jun 2022 10:32pm |
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| I Like Old Skool Member Since: 23 Feb 2015 Location: Manchester Posts: 808 
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Buy yourself a roll of cunifer pipe, a cutter and a flaring tool then make your own pipe sections. It really isn't difficult and after a few practice flares you will never think twice about replacing brake lines again.
I use the Clarke's flaring tool and have totally repiped my Defender after a chassis replacement as well as doing a mates Defender and some new pipes on my son's Jimny. Once you have done a few tidy pipes with good straight runs and clean bends you won't have any hesitation. https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/cht172-aut...aring-kit/ |
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25th Jun 2022 1:50am |
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| bear100 Member Since: 22 Mar 2010 Location: South Wales Posts: 1914
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Thanks for the replies chaps
I'm going to take your advice and make my own, being a commercial gas engineer the pipework bit will be easy for me, my usual size at work is 108mm copper. so Kuniffer pipe what size? i cant seem to find any info on what the original is? a good flaring tool - like Clarke or Tend etc are the unions a particular type? 2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8 2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI 2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone) 2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone) 1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone) 1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone) 1994 discovery 300tdi (gone) 90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone) Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone) |
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25th Jun 2022 7:46am |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 553
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I used this tool and some red rubber grease for lubricant on the threads etc.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384434893378?mk...media=COPY I think fittings are M10x1 but double check that. I used brass but that may be overkill. Assess how many and of what type you need before you order. |
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25th Jun 2022 7:54am |
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| SteveG Member Since: 29 Nov 2011 Location: Norfolk Posts: 659 
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I make my own, but if you factor in cost of tools, if you don’t plan to re-use them a lot, you may want to get a kit… https://www.automec.co.uk/products/brake-p...&_ss=r |
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25th Jun 2022 9:18am |
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| bear100 Member Since: 22 Mar 2010 Location: South Wales Posts: 1914
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Thanks chaps
Done a bit of shopping today, got the Copper brake tube 4.75mm 3/16 and a selection of brass nuts and unions, M10/1 is the right size (cheers Mossberg) The flaring tool, I was just about to order one but came across a picture showing different flares SAE, SAE/DIN, UNF, ISO Most come with a SAE die but I believe I need a DIN/ISO does this sound right? 2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8 2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI 2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone) 2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone) 1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone) 1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone) 1994 discovery 300tdi (gone) 90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone) Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone) |
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25th Jun 2022 4:12pm |
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| Mossberg Member Since: 29 Feb 2020 Location: Lancs Posts: 553
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Have a look at this thread too-
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83774.html Definitely worth looking at the Ed China video! Some of my kit: The die from my flaring tool.  Click image to enlarge My box of bits including fittings, blank ends (male and female), P clips, abrasive, forming tool (an old sliding door runner!!), a small drill in an old chuck, pipe cutting tool, spare bleed nipples (I fitted SS in my new calipers), etc. Click image to enlarge Cutter, drill bit, forming pulley, abrasive Click image to enlarge From my experience; Try flaring some ends before you start working on your actual pipe. If you cut these off you can use a fitting to make dome blank ends for closing off pipes when required. DON'T FORGET TO PUT THE FITTING ON THE PIPE BEFORE FLARING! Click image to enlarge I annealed the pipe but have been told you don't need too. If you do anneal the pipe make sure the end is nice and clean with a fine abrasive/scotchbright etc. I used a 1/8th or 3mm drill to remove the inner burr from the pipe. On the tool I used you get a die (twin ended - male/female) and also a depth stop for the pipe. I took the handle of my tool and put the lower part in a vice. I placed the top loosely on the bottom section, fitted the depth stop but not fully in, fed the pipe up to the depth stop, then wind the depth stop in whilst watching the pipe - if as you tighten the depth stop it pushes the pipe out you know it is fully seated - now tighten the top of the tool down to clamp the pipe. Put some red rubber grease on the end of the die and on its threads - slowly tighten the die until it bottoms out. Remove the die, split the tool and inspect the pipe. Don't forget you will need some clear tube to fit to your bleed nipples when bleeding. You will also need a jar or similar. |
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25th Jun 2022 5:37pm |
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| bear100 Member Since: 22 Mar 2010 Location: South Wales Posts: 1914
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Thanks for all the tips chaps!
Lots of excellent advice as usual! Well it’s all done, actually changed most of the lines after inspection and was quite surprised how bad some sections were, most of the bits hidden away were like new but the exposed bits especially where they have had a coat if Dinitrol weren’t so good. The cunifer/kunifer pipe was great to work with and I found it best to form the beds with my hands, My bending machine had to large a circumference, the flare tool was perfect every time flaring the DIN flares……remember to put the nut on first  done it more than once lol
I couldn’t get the eezibleed kit to work very well so used the manual method instead. The brakes do feel a bit spongy though? 2016 Range Rover Autobiography 4.4 TDV8 2010 110 XS Utility 2.4TDCI 2010 Range Rover Sport TDV8 (gone) 2007 Discovery HSE TDV6 (gone) 1993 110 csw 200 tdi (gone) 1994 90 HT 300 tdi (gone) 1994 discovery 300tdi (gone) 90 hybrid 3.5 v8 (gone) Range rover bobtail 3.5 v8 (gone) |
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4th Jul 2022 7:17pm |
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