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Puma22



Member Since: 22 Jun 2022
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 
Crankcase Pressurised
Hello, I am new to Defender2 as a poster (but used the forum many times for reading about other peoples woes).
I have a 2015 2.2 PUMA and it has a rough idle (and running), this occured after it spat some oil out from what I believe was the timing chain over. I now have diesel/oil blowing out of the dip stick (when lifted), I also have the same coming from the rocker breather pipe going to the inlet, and the oil cap.
I have so far changed 1 injector at a time, I then replaced all injector seals (copper or rocker rubber ones), I have taken the timing chain cover off and checked for any damage or skipped timing and replaced/refitted, I have also changed the oil and filter (in case of diesel contamination).

I am now at a loss about what else could be causing this and would like to hear from others.

FYI, it was driving fine until the oil leak from the suspected timing chain cover, which I believ was due to the excessive pressure. But now it is running as if on 3 cylinders. I did manage to take it on a short journey (500m) and it was putting a significate amount of white thick smoke in the air.

Note, when i remove the injectors, the bottom half is covered with diesel/oil.
Post #956194 22nd Jun 2022 10:07am
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2301

Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
Likely to be injector blow by - when you replaced the copper injector seal washers did you clean the injector bore and seat in the head until bright clean aluminium was exposed? If not then the new seals are sealing against carbon buildup and they won't seal. You need to get them spotless to get a seal that will last any time as shown in the below photo.

Also did you use quality washers? As the cheap ebay ones are copper coated steel which do not deform like soft copper to create a seal.

Some further info in the following threads

https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic74338.html
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic67028.html
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic74929.html
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic74792.html

If it is not this then could be piston blow by and need rings or more


Click image to enlarge
 > 110 XS Double Cab
Post #956195 22nd Jun 2022 10:23am
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Puma22



Member Since: 22 Jun 2022
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 
Hello, many thanks.
I did use quality washers, but I didnt clean the seat.
It only has 50k miles, so i think blow by is unlikely, but I will certainly pull the injectors back out and clean the seats to see if this helps.

Glad that I am on the right lines!
Post #956196 22nd Jun 2022 10:26am
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2301

Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
I've done this job four or five times now and was only successful the final time when I got rid of all traces of buildup.

A brass bottle brush (ebay) in a drill gets the bores nice and clean. I used a 15mm flat seat cutter to get the seats clean just be careful not to take off any aluminium!

As a side note, are the four wells where the injectors come through the plastic rocker cover wet/oily? If so then this is a sure sign of injector blow by. For reference mine were full of oil but have been bone dry since I last did the seals in August 2021 > 110 XS Double Cab
Post #956200 22nd Jun 2022 11:35am
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LRnovice



Member Since: 08 May 2008
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 59

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Auto Belize Green
I had a similar problem on my 2008 Puma defender. The main dealer finally diagnosed it as a blocked breather pipe from cam cover to air inlet although injector seals were also replaced.
Post #956266 22nd Jun 2022 9:12pm
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Puma22



Member Since: 22 Jun 2022
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 
hank wrote:
I've done this job four or five times now and was only successful the final time when I got rid of all traces of buildup.

A brass bottle brush (ebay) in a drill gets the bores nice and clean. I used a 15mm flat seat cutter to get the seats clean just be careful not to take off any aluminium!

As a side note, are the four wells where the injectors come through the plastic rocker cover wet/oily? If so then this is a sure sign of injector blow by. For reference mine were full of oil but have been bone dry since I last did the seals in August 2021


Yes they are/were. At least cylinder 1-2 were. I have ordered a seat cleaning set and will be getting to this over the weekend. Hopefully I can report back some good news.
I have also decided to replace the rocker cover gasket based on the information from the threads quoted above.
Post #956268 22nd Jun 2022 9:27pm
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Puma22



Member Since: 22 Jun 2022
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 
LRnovice wrote:
I had a similar problem on my 2008 Puma defender. The main dealer finally diagnosed it as a blocked breather pipe from cam cover to air inlet although injector seals were also replaced.


I did have a look at this, but my breather is working well, there is just too much pressure in the crank case. I stripped it down and believe there is no valve/filter on the breather system for the Puma 2.2, so blockages would be less likely for my engine.
Post #956269 22nd Jun 2022 9:29pm
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Big Harold



Member Since: 09 Jul 2018
Location: nsw
Posts: 71

Australia 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Alpine White
I had this missing on one cylinder and heaps of blow by.
Also came up with a miss fire code.
Result was one holed piston.
Mark
Post #956276 22nd Jun 2022 11:12pm
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hank



Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2301

Wales 2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey
If it's only wet on cylinders 1 and 2 then that is a good indication that the pressure is coming straight up these injector bores and out of the rocker cover seals so hopefully won't be anything more sinister.

Don't forget new bolts for the injector clamps Thumbs Up > 110 XS Double Cab
Post #956318 23rd Jun 2022 11:29am
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Puma22



Member Since: 22 Jun 2022
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 

Click image to enlarge



Click image to enlarge

Today I’ve had all four injectors out and cleaned the seats. Picture doesn’t show it, but they were very clean.
New washers and bolts fitted, symptom’s are still there. When I remove the injectors, they are all coated in diesel on the bottom.
How tight can I clamp down the injectors before it’s ‘too tight’/sears.
Note this is a 2015 defender, so seems strange all seals went at the same time that I got a lumpy tick over. But if I go for a drive, I get lots of white smoke, I thought that I might get a code up, but no luck.
Post #956468 24th Jun 2022 7:00pm
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Big Harold



Member Since: 09 Jul 2018
Location: nsw
Posts: 71

Australia 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Alpine White
When you removed injectors did you refit them into the same cylinder?
Have you inspected the seats for scratches or marks.
White smoke is unburnt fuel so you either have a compression problem or an over fueling issue.
Mark
Post #956502 25th Jun 2022 2:51am
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Puma22



Member Since: 22 Jun 2022
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 
I have cleaned each seat and I refitted them into the correct positions. I have 1 new injector, so I changed each injector 1 at a time and reprogrammed the ECU with the code. Again, this didn’t help.
Post #956511 25th Jun 2022 7:03am
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mwestcrew



Member Since: 09 Dec 2019
Location: South Warwickshire
Posts: 264

United Kingdom 2011 Defender 130 Puma 2.4 HCPU Baltic Blue
Reading what you have tried so far I’m afraid my money is on a holed piston. 2011 130 Utility Body
2005 110 Van
Post #956514 25th Jun 2022 7:24am
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Puma22



Member Since: 22 Jun 2022
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 29

United Kingdom 
I would agree if it were one injector. However it is all four, a holed piston would only create this problem on the injector in question?
I feel like I’m not tightening the injector clamp down enough.
Post #956526 25th Jun 2022 9:09am
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Big Harold



Member Since: 09 Jul 2018
Location: nsw
Posts: 71

Australia 2015 Defender 130 Puma 2.2 HCPU Alpine White
Did you replace all the injector hold down bolts?
What torque are you doing the bolts to?
Maybe try and anneal the copper washer.
Post #956532 25th Jun 2022 9:20am
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