 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2007 2.4 loss of power, ideas? |
 
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20359  
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How about the MAF? Should flag a DTC though if it is but then you never know.
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9th Nov 2015 4:49pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17378 
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Coming home from work the vehicle seemed to be running a little better, albeit not quite right (illogical, I know).
Once home I checked for DTCs and found the following (there were no faults when I set off this morning): P029C-00 High Pressure Fuel Pump calibration not carried out P029C-00 Cylinder 1 balance (Injector 1) P02A4-00 Cylinder 3 balance (Injector 2) P02A8-00 Cylinder 4 balance (Injector 3) P02A0-00 Cylinder 2 balance (Injector 4) P0110-15 Intake air temperature sensor circuit - General electrical failure - circuit short to battery or open The peak fuel rail pressure was 165 MPa which approximates 24,000psi, and it is my understanding that the first 5 DTCs could be caused by excessive rail pressure (but insufficient to pop the relief valve). This makes me think VCV. Is 165MPa excessive? I have no idea about the P0110 and will need to look this one up. Any ideas? |
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9th Nov 2015 6:53pm |
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| ian series 1 Member Since: 17 Nov 2014 Location: south Posts: 3127 
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PM sent, it's the best I can offer at the moment! 80" 80" 86" 88" 90"
Wanted, Forward Control Anything considered. |
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9th Nov 2015 7:42pm |
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| Mogboy Member Since: 21 May 2013 Location: Brisbane Posts: 31  
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G'day Blackwolf
Another thing you can check is the clutch sensor, which is supposed to reduce engine power when the pedal is depressed to avoid shock loadings on take up. They can stick so that full power is not available & not give a fault code. This, I suspect, could be related to deposits that accumulate & blacken the clutch fluid on most pumas (dodgy rubber hose?? perhaps?). Easiest way to check first is simply unplug it and go for a drive. Take more care with gear changes. Pretty cheap item to replace & just as easy to clean, if it is a fouled oriface to the sensor diaphragm part. Cheers Brid |
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10th Nov 2015 12:30am |
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| Lorryman100 Member Since: 01 Oct 2010 Location: Here Posts: 2686 |
@bw, Roger I got your pm, unfortunately I can think of several expensive fixes to your symptoms but I will go for the easy ones below first.
Initial thoughts on your first post is that a turbo boost pipe has de laminated internally causing an obstruction to the airflow more noticeable when higher boost is requested. Or there is a blockage in the exhaust system which is restricting the exhaust gases giving a higher back pressure which would lead to a restricted power issue. Same can be said for the Air inlet from the air box to the turbo inlet. The second post intrigues me a little  If there was high pressure at the fuel rail then the pressure sensor would pull up a P1169-?? or P0088-09 DTC, the -09 would tell you the actual fault ie Fuel Rail/ System pressure to high etc. The injector balance DTC's are cylinder ? balance Restricted. I have these DTC's logged using the nanocom when I was doing some testing of remaps for Gary at Alive and they appeared because the rail pressure was a tad high but I did also get P1169 and P0088 DTC's! Removal of that remap file returned things to normal.
Have you removed the remap file and returned to the standard file to see if the issue remains? Also go for a run and do a live data session and let me know the rail and boost pressures at set rpms under a moderate load. If you have an oscilloscope can you back probe the MAF and MAP sensors and let me know the voltages in comparison to the readings for the rail and boost pressures. The fuel pressures you recorded are Mpa and are what I would expect to see with a remapped Puma. Below is a live data session I did on an OEM fuel file with the EGR closed off, it will give you an idea of pressures versus loads. NANOCOM - PUMAENG.APP - PUMA ENGINE fault file 1169 - 00 Fuel rail pressure sensor in range but high --- 02A8 - 00 Cylinder 4 balance - (injector 3) restricted --- 029C - 00 Cylinder 1 balance - (injector 1) restricted --- 02A4 - 00 Cylinder 3 balance - (injector 2) restricted --- 0089 - 7A Fuel pressure regulator performance --- Remember as well that the nanocom does not differentiate between tested and untested DTC's so the DTC's you received may have failed the first test cycle but not the 3rd which should have illuminated the MIL lamp and put the Puma into limp mode. P0110 refers to either the MAF or MAP sensor as they are both also temperature sensors, MAF monitors the incoming airs ambient temperature and the MAP monitors the air temp going into the inlet manifold, if this temp is too high then the engine will feel as if it is losing power as that is the strategy the ECM employs to reduce the risk of damaging the engine, (melting the plastic intake manifold!!). P0110-15 refers to an electrical fault, short circuit to battery or open. This could either be the sensors are F****D or there is a fault with the loom. Either way I would not trust the nanocom DTC's as a means to an expensive time replacing possibly non faulty sensors. Take them out and give them a clean, coat the loom plugs in electrical contact cleaner and see if that fixes the issue. Let us know how you get on, HTH Brian. |
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11th Nov 2015 9:37pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17378
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Good news, the problems seems to be solved!
I changed the VCV, since this is a very common culprit for odd running, and it made no perceptible difference. Live data suggested that fuel rail pressures were in the correct range, though this doesn't rule out problems with response. After provisionally ruling out fuel, I looked at the boost. Although I was getting boost, I didn't seem to be getting much - max 160kPa at 3000rpm, and very little at lower engine speeds. This lead to the turbo actuator, which was parked in the fully raised position (I believe it should park mid-position). I disconnected the the operating link between the actuator servo and VNT control and the latter wouldn't budge until I gave it a really hard press with my thumb. Then it freed and moved OK (if anyone is testing theirs, it should move so freely that it actually feels as though it is broken). With the linkage reconnected there was no difference in performance, so I removed the actuator servo, opened it up to check that it looked OK inside (it did) and moved freely (it did), and refitted it with the mechanism in the mid position. Instant improvement, boost increased massively (too massively in fact, it was overboosting at moderate engine speeds). It was however obvious from this that (a) the problems I was having were due to lack of boost, and (b) that the actuator servo was not operating. So, the next thing to check was the engine harness, well known as a cause of problems, but I always thought only on aircon-fitted vehicles. I stripped the harness of its outer tape and convoluted tube sleeving, and was shocked and horrified at what I found. At every single point where the harness is attached to, or touches, any external component, there was significant damage to the sleeving, and in some cases the wiring. Most alarming, the 100A charging output cable from the alternator was chafed through to bare copper by the acoustic cover on the engine, so a very high current, unfused, 100 Amp supply was rattling about unprotected right by the No 1 injector! 
Further inspection revealed that one of the signal wires from the turbo actuator had been chafed almost completely through by the bracket above the vac pump. So, I repaired the harness damage, and with with the engine running if I pressed hard on the turbo actuator I could hear it buzz and feel it trying to return to the mid position. I them rebundled the harness, added a lot of extra chafe protection, and re-secured it. Test run - perfect - the missing horses are back!
So for what it's worth, if you have a 2.4 or 2.2 Puma Defender, whether or not it has aircon, I strongly recommend that you check the engine harness carefully for chafing damage, it could prevent your Defender from doing a Zafira impersonation! Particular areas to check are by the red lifting bracket at the back of the head, the area where a large connector block is tied back on the harness above the inlet manifold, the securing brackets above the inlet manifold and over the vac pump, the area under the acoustic hood, and the area past the aircon compressor or bracket. All these points on mine had significant damage. My thanks as always to those who have helped with advice on this problem, whether in this thread, by PM, or by phone. I have long maintained that the kernal of technically savvy people in this forum, who are so free with their advice, experience, and skills, make owning a Defender and belonging to this forum a pleasure. Thank you! |
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12th Nov 2015 11:00am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8026  
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I have these symptoms and wiring is on the list.
Vehicle had an egr fault which is now mapped out. Eratic idle which turned out to be the VCV and now resolved. It just don't appear to want to go. Down to 3rd to hold 30mph on a hill! Boost seems to go to about 6psi. Turbo actuator arm is working across whole range of movement when disconnected. What position is max boost arm down or up? If changing engine revs and watching the turbo actuator it moves only to start then as revs build to say 2000rpm it moves straight to top position. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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19th May 2022 6:30am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17378
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As I recall (it was a long time ago) fully up is in effect zero boost, fully down is scary boost, and mid position is mild boost.
More recently than this thread I had another harness failure, this time a broken actuator sense wire where the actuator harness passes through a choke coil near the actuator connector, which put it permanently into full boost. Very interesting, plenty of power, but even at tickover the jet-engine roar from my large-bore RAI made children cry and pedestrians dive for cover. It sounded like a Vulcan on max thrust! |
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19th May 2022 6:51am |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20359
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As Blackwolfs top sentence.
As when I had limp mode with mind it was overboost that caused it as actuator got stuck at the bottom end of its travel. I could tell as it was sticky at the lower most travel. It obviously got slightly stuck so triggered limp mode. I periodically put some 3 in 1 oil from a little dripper can on the two pivots on it which solves it and manually operated it to feee it up once the linkage was disc coated from the actuator. Sometimes when you wash it or realy wet weather the area gets wet which doesnโt help. Possibly the actuator itself is getting weaker with age, but is not typically a problem thatโs common. Usually they get sticky. $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R ๐ฌ๐ง๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ๐ฎ๐ช๐บ๐ธโฝ๏ธ๐ข๏ธโ๏ธ๐งฐ๐ช Last edited by custom90 on 19th May 2022 8:24pm. Edited 1 time in total |
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19th May 2022 1:34pm |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17378
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Steve, it doesn't matter how many times you do that, I am NOT changing my user name to suit your spell-checker!
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19th May 2022 5:43pm |
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| custom90 Member Since: 21 Jan 2010 Location: South West, England. Posts: 20359
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Blast, I tried my best to prevent that happening too.
 $W33T $0U7H3RN $UG4R
๐ฌ๐ง๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ฅ๓ ฎ๓ ง๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ท๓ ฌ๓ ณ๓ ฟ๐ด๓ ง๓ ข๓ ณ๓ ฃ๓ ด๓ ฟ๐ฎ๐ช๐บ๐ธโฝ๏ธ๐ข๏ธโ๏ธ๐งฐ๐ช |
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19th May 2022 8:27pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8026
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Cheers for feedback. We'll a bit more investigating. New maf needed. Still didn't fix it. Clutch switch occasionally sticking, still low power. Can get her to rev freely when not under load.nas soon as goes under load she will start to boost as normal and then goes to limp mode limiting to ek revs, or she just drives with little.boost. seems to peak at 10psi then it's cut to 6psi. Turbo actuator moves steadily until gets to 10psi then goes straight to top then drops to bottom of range.
Possibly an overboost resulting in turbo shutdown or vanes not right? Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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20th May 2022 7:43pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8026
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If I disconnect the clutch switch she revs over 3k makes 6psi boost.
Set the turbo vanes mid position and not connect the servo back up she gets to 18/19psi in mid rev range. So in affect running as a fixed vane. Think the idea above of sticking vanes is a strong possibility. Will now look into cleaning options! Revive is it? Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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23rd May 2022 9:10am |
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| WilkoW Member Since: 09 Jun 2013 Location: Northants Posts: 84 
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Hello
My 2.4 is suffering something similar with a whooshing sound coming from the engine/turbo area. Iโve checked the silicone pipes/actuator which seem fine so could it be the VCV causing this sound and power loss? When re-started it works if I do t push it. |
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25th May 2022 8:05pm |
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