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| P50WKB Member Since: 05 Jul 2021 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 23   
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Coming from 2 Discovery Sports (the last one a D240) and being fully aware of the fuel dilution and DPF issues of the Ingenium diesel engine I regularly took oil samples for analysis by Millers Oils. I have had the oil in my D250 6 cylinder analysed - results below :
 Click image to enlarge This is the first analysis of the Defender oil from new at 3800 miles; fuel dilution and soot are fine - my Discovery would have had about 6% dilution at this mileage. I changed the oil at 10,000 mile intervals not the "recommended" 21,000 miles. I think I will continue to change the Defender oil at 10,000 miles too. If any Oil/Engine Technologists can explain the Molybdenum ppm I would be very interested to read their comments - do JLR use a running-in oil at first fill I wonder ? MY 21 3.0 D250 SE 90 Hakuba Silver (Sold October 2023) MY 24 3.0 D250 HSE 90 Santorini Black (Bought October 2023) 2009 Defender 90 2.4 TDCi Santorini Black |
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27th Mar 2022 6:11pm |
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| pjm-84 Member Since: 12 Apr 2021 Location: Hampshire Posts: 661
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Probably worth emailing Mike.Winn who is the laboratory manager at Millers. Very helpful chap.
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27th Mar 2022 9:55pm |
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| P50WKB Member Since: 05 Jul 2021 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 23
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Good call - I had a very informative discussion with Mike Winn. High levels of Silicon (Si) and Aluminium (Al) are indicative of dust ingression - he suggested I check the air filter for correct fitment; also he asked if I lived near the sea as Sodium (Na) is not generally seen in oil analysis except if the engine is exposed to a salty atmosphere..............I live about 5 miles as the crow flies, from Peterhead on the North Sea coast ! The recommendation is to change the oil because of the high Si and Al. The high Molybdenum (Mo) could be caused by any number of reasons but I should not be alarmed as it is not an effect of wear like a high Iron reading would be. I'm changing the oil and checking the air filter this weekend. MY 21 3.0 D250 SE 90 Hakuba Silver (Sold October 2023)
MY 24 3.0 D250 HSE 90 Santorini Black (Bought October 2023) 2009 Defender 90 2.4 TDCi Santorini Black |
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29th Mar 2022 6:44pm |
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| pjm-84 Member Since: 12 Apr 2021 Location: Hampshire Posts: 661
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Interesting. 5 miles wouldn't be classed as coastal but it looks kind of exposed / severe up there.
I'm in Southampton, within a mile of the Solent, but its a very soft southern sheltered salt  |
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29th Mar 2022 9:05pm |
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| miker Member Since: 13 Sep 2015 Location: Surrey Posts: 1763 
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How much does the analysis cost? I've never done it on my TD5, and change the oil every 5-10k, but would be interested.
As this is the "new" engine oil, could the molybdenum be from assembly grease/lube? |
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29th Mar 2022 10:30pm |
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| pjm-84 Member Since: 12 Apr 2021 Location: Hampshire Posts: 661
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About £35.
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29th Mar 2022 10:38pm |
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| P50WKB Member Since: 05 Jul 2021 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 23
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Ha Ha - soft southern salt eh ! We are 200 metres up on the last high ground before the sea; my road trips are mostly coastal - Peterhead, Aberdeen, Macduff, Dumfries - all good old seaside towns
 Even a pressure washer struggles to remove our hardy northern salt cake. When the wind is in the East the seagulls are grounded  MY 21 3.0 D250 SE 90 Hakuba Silver (Sold October 2023)
MY 24 3.0 D250 HSE 90 Santorini Black (Bought October 2023) 2009 Defender 90 2.4 TDCi Santorini Black |
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30th Mar 2022 7:35am |
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| P50WKB Member Since: 05 Jul 2021 Location: Aberdeenshire Posts: 23
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"As this is the "new" engine oil, could the molybdenum be from assembly grease/lube?"
I understand that this is the most likely source as Mo is not a component of the oil or additives. Apparently, if JLR are using a bulk first fill running-in oil then Mo would be the last thing they would add - Mo is generally used in racing engine oil to reduce friction - the opposite effect that is needed for running-in.... The good and reassuring thing about the analysis is that the fuel dilution and soot levels are really low so Discovery Sport DPF issues being repeated in the Defender are a thing of the past (fingers crossed). I shall continue to have the oil analysed periodically to build up a trend but I will be changing the oil at 10,000 mile intervals regardless. MY 21 3.0 D250 SE 90 Hakuba Silver (Sold October 2023) MY 24 3.0 D250 HSE 90 Santorini Black (Bought October 2023) 2009 Defender 90 2.4 TDCi Santorini Black |
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30th Mar 2022 7:55am |
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| The Zee Member Since: 26 May 2019 Location: Salisbury Posts: 289 
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As a Chartered Analytical Chemist and a Chartered Scientist, did Millers request a “blank” sample of the oil used to fill? Since it is best practice to have a reference to the sample being analysed, this allows any analyte of interest to be compared to the reference, and compared in relation to this blank or reference sample.
While I have not performed elemental oil analysis, I have used equipment similar to what I expect they have used for analysis of other materials.  The very high Mo content is of interest especially at > 800ppm, I would hope that at the next analysis point this would be significantly less. Zaid-M
www.DefencePhotos.com 2014 Defender 110 Utility, 2.2 Puma, Indus Silver Not just transport more like a religion |
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31st Mar 2022 9:40am |
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| Will.I.AM Member Since: 16 May 2013 Location: Hertfordshire Posts: 413 
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lol, i never knew this is a service that was avaliable - i will try and get a test on my series 2a 200tdi - severly tweaked fuel pump and turbo wound up. I wouldn't be supprised if they take a sample of iron filings out of the oil
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1st Apr 2022 6:56am |
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| dgardel Member Since: 30 Nov 2008 Location: Veneto (Heart & Head) Posts: 3586 
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Normally used as additive into the oil Discovery 5 td6 HSE Stornoway Gray Outback Engineering Limited Edition
IID Pro MV License |
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10th Apr 2022 9:24pm |
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