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Home > Maintenance & Modifications > Automatic Puma... what should I know?

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X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295

Automatic Puma... what should I know? Hello D2N We're looking to get a second Defender, for my wife, and she's set on it being an Automatic. We're interested to know what should be known to achieve an Automatic Defender... and so would appreciate your help... Anyone got one... Anyone been down this route... In outline, we want a Puma, ideally a late 2010/2011 2.4 or a 2.2 / 90 or 110 XS spec' level. It will be used predominately on road, could possibly tow a Trailer or Caravan (1200kgs unladen weight). The Defender Condition, (for us), is key, we don't want a 'Project' vehicle but a Vehicle either already converted or that we have converted + If it hasn't had the 'security treatment', we would add this too. Initial research appears to take me, more often than not, to Ashcroft Engineering, where a ZF Automatic Gearbox Puma Conversion Kit is £4670.00 + Vat (to DIY / supply to Installer) or £5870.00 + Vat for an Ashcroft installation. https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/produ...-auto-kit/ Is Ashcroft the 'go to / proven route' here, or are there other 'serious' contenders... I've been looking and have seen on-line, 2 Ashcroft Converted Defenders for Sale so far this year, so probably can take from this that yes there're out there, but they don't surface too often. My gut feeling is to either strike quickly if one comes up (that is all we want) but maybe take a 'safer' route and get a good condition (long term keeper) base vehicle and then have it converted. In this way A. the Condition of the Defender comes first and B. The Auto Conversation is 'new and controlled' with probably, for us, the supplier (Ashcroft?) completing the Conversation. I do have a good Independent that I will sound out, but we want someone who is familiar / has done this with proven conversation experience. The Option that currently looks the most attractive is here is Buy Good Manual / Excellent Condition / Low Mileage Puma (so we wont be the only people looking ) Convert it to Automatic £7-8K (this route includes 'donating' the existing MT82 Gearbox to Installer) Add Security Levels, if absent £1-2K So 2nd Puma Defender ?K+10K Modifications = What do you think is worth knowing or considering here... Thanks D2N...  SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html

14th Mar 2022 10:39am

Gasket Member Since: 30 May 2020 Location: Manchester Posts: 629

I haven't done it, but explored it quite seriously when I bought my 2010 puma. Ashcrofts are a brill firm - their approach is to create a workaround to allow the ford TDCI to match with the proven old 4-speed ZF 4HP22 as fitted to countless Discos and Range Rovers. In principal, I actually preferred the JE engineering approach which uses the 6-speed Ford automatic (as used in Rangers, etc) which is already designed to fit the 2.2/2.4 TDCi. The downside is I thought it was more complex and hellish expensive too. https://www.jemotorworks.co.uk/product-pag...conversion In the end I realised that if I had bought a Tdi or TD5 defender I would 100% be calling ashcrofts for an auto conversion, but on the TDCi neither solution was right for me so I've kept it manual. Last edited by Gasket on 14th Mar 2022 1:44pm. Edited 1 time in total

14th Mar 2022 11:07am

jimbo55 Member Since: 15 Jul 2020 Location: Midlands Posts: 399

I considered an auto conversion on my 90, albeit td5, and came to a similar conclusion to gasket, The old ZF 4 speed is proven, but doesn’t hold up to the torque from a puma or tuned td5 that well (unless you start throwing money at it). It is also an old school, clunky auto as you’d expect from something initially designed in the 80’s or 90’s and won’t be anywhere near as smooth as you’d get from a more modern auto. If you’re used to modern autos, then you’ll most likely be very dissatisfied in the auto box if you went down this route. The 6 speed option, as offered by JE is definitely the better option, but it does come with a rather large price tag.

14th Mar 2022 1:26pm

BrickBox Member Since: 05 Oct 2021 Location: Wales Posts: 808	There are currently 2 automatic Defenders on eBay for sale - worth considering? Since the big expense has already been done and ready to test drive. 2008 2.4 110 Utility Station Wagon XS.
14th Mar 2022 1:28pm

jimbo55 Member Since: 15 Jul 2020 Location: Midlands Posts: 399	Certainly worth going for a test drive in one that’s been done already to decide if you like it before spend money on either a conversion or buying another defender
14th Mar 2022 1:31pm

X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295

Thanks All For the initial feed back... I think we will test drive a Ashcroft Converted Puma to see how that route feels. Gasket The JE Motor Works route looks interesting, effectively POA from their on-line site approach and potentially as you say could be approaching X2 the £ compared to the Ashcroft Route. Currently I'm open to both. Ashcroft Conversion (skip to 6.00 mins for the look see underneath / 9.00 for a drive) Thanks  SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html

14th Mar 2022 2:03pm

TVR Tommy Member Since: 26 Nov 2013 Location: Bucks Posts: 179

I have Ashcroft conversation zf4hp22 in my td5 90 I purchased it with an old Ashcroft conversion. So it had a hydraulic zf4 and td5 torque converter. I wasn’t much of a fan when it was like that. It rev’d to highly with the td5 TC and you couldn’t tweak shift points and TC lock out speeds. It worked, but just didn’t work that well. I then purchased a compushift 2 to control the electronic ZF4 box and a Ashcroft heavy duty ( v8 ) torque convertor. I then went about swapping it over. Which was well worth the effort. I’ve now got total control over the box. I have it set up with 2 shift modes 1: for standard day to day driving 2: for towing. I can hold gears with manual tiptronic buttons. Change TC lock out speeds and have it lock out in 2nd 3rd and 4th if I wish. The compushift is a very adaptable system. The v8 torque converter has dropped the revs nicely and it goes very well when you put your boot in. Only thing I might change is the transfer box to a 1.2. But this would mostly be to get shot of the current backlash in the transfer box. It cruises along at 60mph at 2300rpm and it’s not half bad. The auto conversions suit Defenders. This is my 3rd TD5. The first two being manuals. I like the relaxed driving style the auto brings. It’s very much worth getting one with a compushift. Try to get a compushift 2 or 3 as the 1 doesn’t have 2 selectable shift modes. But saying that I think all puma conversions would be with a compushift. Where was a good PDF of a magazine review of the puma auto conversion on the Ashcroft website. I can’t seem to find it on there new updated site unfortunately. There seems to be people fitting bmw 330 diesels with the 6/8 speed ZF which look to work well in a puma The one in this video link looks to drive nicely. Hope this is some help.

14th Mar 2022 6:22pm

GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10379	Word Dan at DT Engine Solutions up, he builds uprated auto boxes for tuned up Pumas and td5’s (for a few of the big Defender modding companies, literally 1 or 2 a week. Example of auto oil cooler install. Click image to enlarge
14th Mar 2022 6:32pm

X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295

Hello TVR Tommy Thanks for the insight… The Magazine article I think you refer to is there on the Ashcroft link page I posted above. LRM February 2009 with a development review of the Ashcroft Puma Auto’. I think you are right, it would appear that All Puma’s utilise the Compushift System of adjusting the Auto gear changes, to suit the driver (driving style). So you too have this Compushift Control Unit Or has it now developed to a Phone App Test Drive I’ve found a 2010 2.4 tdci Ashcroft Auto’ Conversion, that was modified effectively from new and we’ll probably get to drive it during this week to get a sense of what to expect. I’m also going to talk to Ashcroft directly to learn more. Hello GREENI I’ll give Dan a call… Thanks SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html

14th Mar 2022 10:31pm

TVR Tommy Member Since: 26 Nov 2013 Location: Bucks Posts: 179

I have a compushift 2 with the screen mounted on the aircon box under the radio panel. The phone app on the CS3 looks very good and probably much easier to play with the settings. I find the display useful as I have rpm/speed/boost %/transmission temp/throttle position/gearbox pressures and gear selection displayed. You can also add this to the CS3 as well. I’d have liked the CS3 but managed to get a secondhand CS2 much cheaper. Stumbled across this whilst browsing YouTube. https://www.la-motors.uk/details/used-van-....2/633647/ Optimistically priced at 70k! it does have a 6speed auto and a really horrible steering wheel fitted.

15th Mar 2022 3:38pm

JOW240725 Member Since: 04 May 2015 Location: Suffolk Posts: 7904

There are several threads on Auto conversions on here. Jellybean swapped from 4sp Ashcroft to 6sp JE Eng which I think is quite telling... https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic61942.html James MY2012 110 2.2TDCi XS SW Orkney Grey - http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic43410.html MY1990 110 200TDi SW beautifully faded Portofino Red - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post743641.html#743641 MY1984 90 V8 Slate Grey - https://www.defender2.net/forum/post744557.html#744557 Instagram @suffolk_rovers

15th Mar 2022 4:01pm

X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295	Thanks TVR Tommy Again very helpful... Click image to enlarge  SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html
15th Mar 2022 4:08pm

X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295	Hello JOW240725 Thank you...now reading...  SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html
15th Mar 2022 4:11pm

carpetsauce Member Since: 19 Mar 2021 Location: Essex Posts: 58

I’ve had the JE 6 speed on my 90 for 6 months now and I’m really pleased with the conversion. (I should be at the price!). The truck sits comfortably at 60-65mph showing 2000 revs. I’m always in the right gear which is great for town driving. It’s effortless and has transformed the vehicle. The electric handbrake is a real convenience fit. No more reaching down to find the lever (first world problem I admit). It doesn’t auto-disengage if you’re in drive and pull away as most other auto handbrake do. That’d be nice but no hardship. Will I get my money back if I sell the truck? Probs not but that’ll encourage to keep the 90.

16th Mar 2022 7:53am

X4SKP Member Since: 29 Nov 2013 Location: Berkshire Posts: 2295

Hello carpetsauce Thanks for your summary... We get to drive a Ashcroft Auto' Puma on Saturday, so that will be our first experience. I think we need to drive a good example (the best they can be) of both the Ashcroft and JE Auto Puma Conversions, so will look to do this at source hopefully with demo' vehicles. I'm still of the opinion to take a good base vehicle through this process. I agree as you say the money spent to do this probably does not equate to a equal raise in the vehicles value, but I do believe a well resolved Auto' Puma (Defender) has a market if it needs to be moved on. SKIP https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic83242.html

16th Mar 2022 12:32pm

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