bm52 wrote:

have a looke here : http://www.conti-online.com/generator/www/...er_en.html

and here: http://www.tyretest.com/4x4_tyres/continen...ndex.html.

does'nt look like they are snow rated, they have 2 winter tyres for 4x4s !

ken wrote:

Pom you cant jump on the Band Wagon well M+S maybe but the Mountain Snowflake has a specific criteria to meet.

These include Sipes & extended silica values

The bottom line is that the much higher grip provided by four excellent winter tyres, mounted on any type of vehicle, of any mechanical configuration, brings infinitely greater objective safety and confidence at the wheel, even in the worst conditions winter has to offer. Once you taste it, you never want go back, nor let any family member drive a vehicle without such tyres. (sort of sums it up)

ken wrote:

Dura Tracs are Mountain SnowFlake pom they are not M+S its a major differance

What's the difference in snow traction between an M+S (Mud and Snow) branded tyre, an all-season tyre and a purpose-built winter/snow tyre? While many drivers probably aren't absolutely sure, it can be the difference between getting to work, getting home and getting stuck.
The original definition of M+S tyres is based on the geometry of the tread design. The M+S designation was first used to differentiate the knobby, bias ply tyres intended for use on muddy and/or snow-covered roads from the straight rib tyres used on early cars or trucks. Tyres with tread designs that meet the definition may be branded with the letters "M" and "S" in several different ways (e.g., M&S, M+S, M/S, MS, etc.) at the discretion of the tyre manufacturer.
When early radial ply tyres were also found to deliver more snow traction than the straight rib, bias ply tyres, the tyre companies introduced all-season tyres. Supported by advertising, all-season tyres have presented an unspoken promise that they, throughout their life, can provide traction for all seasons...through spring's rain, summer's heat, fall's cooling and winter's snow. While this combined offering has made all-season tyres popular, many drivers have learned that a geometric definition doesn't guarantee winter snow and ice traction.
In 1999, The Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA) agreed on a performance based standard to identify passenger and light truck tyres that attain a traction index equal to, or greater than 110 (compared to a reference tyre which is rated 100) during the specified American Society for Testing and Materials traction tests on packed snow. The new standard helps ensure that drivers can easily identify tyres that provide a higher level of snow traction.
A mountain/snowflake symbol branded on the tyre's sidewall identifies tyres that met the required performance in snow testing. The mountain/snowflake symbol is expected to be fully implemented on new tyres by now, however there still may be a few winter/snow tyres in the marketplace that meet the requirements but were produced in molds manufactured before the symbol was developed.
While dedicated winter/snow tyres bearing the mountain/snowflake symbol are available in sizes for most passenger cars and MPv’s,
Oh and this is a beaut
What If My Car Has All-Wheel Drive?
All-wheel drive is certainly an advantage...but its advantage can be multiplied by using winter tyres designed for the road conditions you'll encounter. While more tyres share the torque of your vehicle, think of the ice and snow performance that winter tyres provide. All of the reasons that encouraged you to select an all-wheel drive car are the same reasons that dedicated winter tyres will make your winter driving more enjoyable and enhance your car's braking, handling and cornering traits.
However, it is important to remember that while the all-wheel/four-wheel drive vehicle's ability to accelerate in slippery conditions provides a lot of confidence, it doesn't really offer any unique advantage when the vehicle has to stop or turn. This is because the other vehicles also use all four tyres to provide braking and cornering traction. Since four-wheel drive vehicles actually weigh more than their two-wheel drive counterparts, bringing them to a stop or turning a corner actually requires more traction.
So, whether your vehicle has anti-lock brakes, traction control, a vehicle stability system, four-wheel drive or all-wheel drive, it is your tyres that provide the real traction. Obviously, the more tyre traction these systems have to work with the better. Since most vehicles (including light trucks) are originally equipped with all-season tyres, optimising these systems' capabilities on snow and ice requires installing winter tyres.

Siped & Studable

Maybe worth you dropping him a 'pm' he does appear to be the veritable oracle!

 If you go through life with your head in the sand....all people will see is an ar5e!!

Treat every day as if it is your last....one day you will be right!!

bpman wrote:

Matt

Proper snow tyres don't look cool and chunky like others but because the compound is made for snow they grip so much better. i have a set of cooper discoverer M&S snow tyres (not STs or STTs) i brought back from Switzerland.

You should not have any problems obtaining snow tyres in Germany and it's probably the law to fit these Nov/Mar ?

bp

You're quite right. Winter tyres (at least M+S) are a legal obligation here when Winter conditions require them (ice/snow/slush) - general rule is "Oktober bis Ostern" (October 'til Easter). I also read somewhere that the Coopers are very good but as they often clear the motorways quite well and I already have the M+S Contis I am reluctant to buy another set (studs etc.). Luckily BigRuss had the CrossContacts on his Puma in Aberdeen last Winter and found them more than capable in Snow etc. Just not sure if the compound is sticky enough for ice.

So I will see how I get on before going wheel/tyre shopping... just yet

Many thanks
Matt Tell someone you love them today because life is short.
But shout it at them in German because life is also terrifying and confusing...