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Mini Landie

Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Basingstoke Massiff
Posts: 159

Side-to-side play on front wheels - even with hub off

‘53 90 TD5.

I had an MoT test failure on Friday so took the car back home to fix myself.

NSF, OSF and OSR wheel bearings have excessive play. Also track rod lock nuts loose (easy enough to fix) and wheel alignment out (to be expected - I replaced the track rod ball joints two or three weeks ago).

So I bought four wheel bearing sets to do all corners but even after replacing the OSF wheel bearing, I’m still getting side-to-side play. So I took the hub off and grabbing onto the sticky-outtie bit of metal with the steering rod hole for LHD countries, I’m still getting side-to-side play.

Could this be the swivel? Track rod/ball joints?

I haven’t started on the NSF yet - maybe the problem is with those bearings? That currently has top-to-bottom and side-to-side play. Hoping just an adjustment is required.

Edit: missed off the word “hole”. Whoopsy. 2003 90 TD5 Hardtop

16th Jan 2022 2:23pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Good effort with the bearings.

So, to differentiate between wheel bearing and swivel bearing play engage the brakes (which locks the wheel bearings tight), when holding the wheel at 12 and 6 and rocking it back and forth vertically. Try that. If it clunks then the swivel preload needs adjusting.

Then with your hands at 9 and 3 rock the hub, if there is a clunk then it is the steering ball joints.

If there is no clunking at this point then it is almost certainly the wheel bearings. In which case either the bearings have not been seated correctly and are on wonky, not torqued up to 210Nm or the spacer that sets the bearings is the incorrect size. There are 7 different sizes to choose from.

The spacer thing if that is the problem will be because the bearings are slightly different size to the LR original ones. Might be worth checking their dimensions with a set of vernier calipers to check.

16th Jan 2022 2:58pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Ah there is one more thing to check. Take off the hub and check really carefully with a torch that the bearing races are seated properly in the hub, the sure line between the hub and race should almost be indistinguishable. The slightest bit of grit can cause problems.

16th Jan 2022 3:09pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5720

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver

What bearing setup do you have? Two nut, or spacer?

16th Jan 2022 6:13pm

Mini Landie

Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Basingstoke Massiff
Posts: 159

geobloke wrote:
Good effort with the bearings.

So, to differentiate between wheel bearing and swivel bearing play engage the brakes (which locks the wheel bearings tight), when holding the wheel at 12 and 6 and rocking it back and forth vertically. Try that. If it clunks then the swivel preload needs adjusting.

Then with your hands at 9 and 3 rock the hub, if there is a clunk then it is the steering ball joints.

If there is no clunking at this point then it is almost certainly the wheel bearings. In which case either the bearings have not been seated correctly and are on wonky, not torqued up to 210Nm or the spacer that sets the bearings is the incorrect size. There are 7 different sizes to choose from.

The spacer thing if that is the problem will be because the bearings are slightly different size to the LR original ones. Might be worth checking their dimensions with a set of vernier calipers to check.

This may be a clue with the issue. I don't have a proper 52mm socket - just the one you use an extension bar with and done up 'FT'. Perhaps I should invest!

landy andy wrote:
What bearing setup do you have? Two nut, or spacer?

I have the two-nut jobby. 2003 90 TD5 Hardtop

16th Jan 2022 6:46pm

kenzle8a

Member Since: 12 Feb 2020
Location: None
Posts: 1074

Proper 52mm Socket is the best thing I bought, makes it a breeze

16th Jan 2022 6:59pm

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Mini Landie wrote:
geobloke wrote:
Good effort with the bearings.

So, to differentiate between wheel bearing and swivel bearing play engage the brakes (which locks the wheel bearings tight), when holding the wheel at 12 and 6 and rocking it back and forth vertically. Try that. If it clunks then the swivel preload needs adjusting.

Then with your hands at 9 and 3 rock the hub, if there is a clunk then it is the steering ball joints.

If there is no clunking at this point then it is almost certainly the wheel bearings. In which case either the bearings have not been seated correctly and are on wonky, not torqued up to 210Nm or the spacer that sets the bearings is the incorrect size. There are 7 different sizes to choose from.

The spacer thing if that is the problem will be because the bearings are slightly different size to the LR original ones. Might be worth checking their dimensions with a set of vernier calipers to check.

This may be a clue with the issue. I don't have a proper 52mm socket - just the one you use an extension bar with and done up 'FT'. Perhaps I should invest!

landy andy wrote:
What bearing setup do you have? Two nut, or spacer?

I have the two-nut jobby.

Ahhh you converted to the two nut way of doing this. Do you still have the spacer fitted between the bearings? The earlier two nut method (200tdi and earlier) did not use a spacer, but every Defender from 200tdi does.

This the socket you need - DA1118 - £22 - https://www.lrparts.net/da1118-hub-nut-soc...-jobs.html

16th Jan 2022 7:26pm

Retroanaconda

Member Since: 04 Jan 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2651

The spacer and stake nut didn’t come in until the Td5 era. Only those types require torquing to such a high number, earlier ones with no spacer and the two locknuts are done differently.

17th Jan 2022 8:47am

geobloke

Member Since: 06 Nov 2012
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 4410

Yes you are absolutely right Retroanaconda the spacers did come in with the TD5 and as such should probably not be used with the twin nut method of earlier Land Rovers. So if the OP still has the spacer installed he should probably remove it and re-install the hub assembly with the twin nuts.

Or return back to the TD5 method of the single stake nut and spacer method. Some folks prefer the twin nut method, there is plenty of hate on forums for the method, but in my experience and after 222k miles the TD5 single nut has worked perfectly.

17th Jan 2022 10:52am

Mini Landie

Member Since: 23 Sep 2015
Location: Basingstoke Massiff
Posts: 159

Thank you for your input, chaps. I can quietly confidently say that I do not have a spacer fitted. Just the races, bearings, twin nuts and the locking tab that you bend opposing ways.

This is the guide I followed, around the 33:50 min mark onwards - good ol' Britannica Restorations:

After still getting some play after adjusting the NSF, I'm going to replace those bearings shortly and see how I get on. Top-to-bottom play was eliminated but still side-to-side movement. 2003 90 TD5 Hardtop

17th Jan 2022 12:06pm

roel

Member Since: 08 Aug 2009
Location: Lelystad
Posts: 2039

To me I doesn't sound like wheelbearings then.
Can you get somebody else to push and pull on the tyre and have a look yourself where it moves?

What I do with the wheelbearings. I also use the double nut system.
I assemble everything and also fit the tyres.
Thighten the first nut a bit too much so it is difficult to turn. Then slack the nut of till there is play.
And then tighten it again till the play is gone but the wheel turns freely.
Install locking tab and second nut hand tight.
Check if the wheel still turns free.
If you tighten the second nut you will notice the bearing will become a bit more tight but the wheel should still turn nice. Roel

1984 90 2.5 na Diesel - RR V8 (1994-2001)
1997 Camel Trophy Discovery 300TDI (2001-2009)
2005 G4 Discovery III 4.4 V8 (2008-2018) It's gone but it still hurts.
2003 90 Td5 (2009-now)

17th Jan 2022 6:32pm

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