↓ Advertise on Defender2 ↓

Home > Off Topic > How clean is an electric car?
Post Reply  Down to end
Page 1 of 2 12>
Print this entire topic · 
Muddybigdog



Member Since: 11 Apr 2014
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 1017

United Kingdom 2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Zambezi Silver
How clean is an electric car?
Interesting report from Drax on electric vehicles and how long it can take to repay the upfront carbon costs of EV batteries.

https://www.drax.com/opinion/how-clean-is-my-electric-car/ Jumped ship to reliability - Mitsubishi L200
Puma 90 XS - Sold
D3 - 2.7 S x2 (both Sold)
Freelander 2 HSE - Sold
Freelander 1 - Sold
Disco 2 - Sold
Post #928032 1st Nov 2021 8:22am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Tim in Scotland



Member Since: 23 May 2007
Location: The Land that time forgot
Posts: 3753

 
No mention of the CO2 emitted transporting new EV’s made in Asia/USA all round the world on fossil fuel burning car carrying ships or the CO2 emitted flying some of their parts around the world too from China to the place of assembly. Pangea Green D250 90 HSE with Air Suspension, Off-road Pack, Towing Pack, Black Contrast roof , rear recovery eyes, Front bash plate, Classic flaps all round, extended wheel arch kit and a few bits from PowerfulUK Expel Clear Gloss PPF to come
2020 D240 1st Edition in Pangea Green with Acorn interior. Now gone - old faithful, no mechanical issues whatsoever ever but the leaks and rattles all over the place won’t be missed!
Post #928056 1st Nov 2021 10:49am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lodelaner



Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lambourn
Posts: 631

United Kingdom 1988 Defender 90 V8 Petrol ST Shire Blue
Re: How clean is an electric car?
Really interesting report, thanks for sharing. Even with upfront carbon 'loading' from production an electric car is cleaner and will continue to get cleaner as electricity production continues to be decarbonised.

Quote:
Manufacturing a kWh of battery capacity is the equivalent to the CO2 emitted by burning a tank of fuel.


But, instead of simplistically thinking that EV is the answer, surely we should also need to start producing hydrogen from renewables PDQ. I see that JCB just signed a contract to buy renewably-sourced Hydrogen from Australia, for it to be shipped across the globe Shocked

I hope that COP26 creates enough awareness to overcome the reluctance to push through the constrictions on national planning issues.

With the environmental lobby blocking every Severn tidal power project (that could produce the equivalent of 3 nuclear power stations day in, day out with balancing from pumped-storage or hydrogen turbines or fuel cells) I'm a totally perplexed about the UK's approach to energy security and renewables. Surely we could have reliable renewable energy and make thousands of tonnes of hydrogen with any excess production - effectively storing energy for all forms of road transport and plant machinery? JB

@Lodelaner Instagram

Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content
Post #928067 1st Nov 2021 11:39am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
90 Dreamer



Member Since: 13 Jul 2019
Location: Oop North
Posts: 2147

United Kingdom 2016 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 HT Corris Grey
Does it depend on which 'hand wash' you take it to.......... Cool
Post #928144 1st Nov 2021 9:26pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
lohr500



Member Since: 14 Sep 2014
Location: Skipton
Posts: 1316

United Kingdom 2013 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Santorini Black
@Lodelaner Agree, it does seem crazy that we aren't exploiting the tidal ranges around the UK when we are an island with such a difference between low and high tides across the nation.
Post #928149 1st Nov 2021 9:58pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3278

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
Re: How clean is an electric car?
Lodelaner wrote:
Really interesting report, thanks for sharing. Even with upfront carbon 'loading' from production an electric car is cleaner and will continue to get cleaner as electricity production continues to be decarbonised.

Quote:
Manufacturing a kWh of battery capacity is the equivalent to the CO2 emitted by burning a tank of fuel.


But, instead of simplistically thinking that EV is the answer, surely we should also need to start producing hydrogen from renewables PDQ. I see that JCB just signed a contract to buy renewably-sourced Hydrogen from Australia, for it to be shipped across the globe Shocked

I hope that COP26 creates enough awareness to overcome the reluctance to push through the constrictions on national planning issues.

With the environmental lobby blocking every Severn tidal power project (that could produce the equivalent of 3 nuclear power stations day in, day out with balancing from pumped-storage or hydrogen turbines or fuel cells) I'm a totally perplexed about the UK's approach to energy security and renewables. Surely we could have reliable renewable energy and make thousands of tonnes of hydrogen with any excess production - effectively storing energy for all forms of road transport and plant machinery?


The government vitoed the plan based on a feasibility study. i can't do a link but if you Google Severn Tidal Power Gov uk the PDF is available on the .gov website. There are some concerns about damage to the environment but it looks like the cost/benefit doesn't make sense at this time. WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.
Post #928152 1st Nov 2021 10:08pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lodelaner



Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lambourn
Posts: 631

United Kingdom 1988 Defender 90 V8 Petrol ST Shire Blue
I’ve read it. 5 solutions were considered ranging from £7 billion to £34billion.

The summary is that “The costs and risks for the taxpayer and energy consumer would be excessive compared to other low-carbon energy options. Furthermore, regulatory barriers create uncertainties that would add to the cost and risk of construction. The Government believes that other options, such as the expansion of wind energy, carbon capture and storage and nuclear power without public subsidy, represent a better deal for taxpayers and consumers at this time.”

However they didn’t rule out the viability of a private scheme - and bearing in mind that Hinckley Point C is currently running at £22billion and Sizewell C is likely to cost similar if commissioned with a life span of 60years (vs barrage having a span of 120 years) I think the conclusions should be seen through a different lens now. JB

@Lodelaner Instagram

Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content


Last edited by Lodelaner on 1st Nov 2021 10:35pm. Edited 1 time in total
Post #928154 1st Nov 2021 10:21pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Zed



Member Since: 07 Oct 2017
Location: In the woods
Posts: 3278

United Kingdom 2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black
I tend to agree. After reading, it looks like more government short sightedness. They've just kicked it down the road and instead given Chinese state owned companies billions to build our nuclear power stations.

What could possibly go wrong??? WARNING.
This post may contain sarcasm.
Post #928155 1st Nov 2021 10:34pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Lodelaner



Member Since: 04 Feb 2010
Location: Lambourn
Posts: 631

United Kingdom 1988 Defender 90 V8 Petrol ST Shire Blue
Lol Very Happy JB

@Lodelaner Instagram

Youtube greenlaning and other LR related content
Post #928157 1st Nov 2021 10:37pm
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
markb110



Member Since: 22 May 2010
Location: Guildford
Posts: 2630

England 2002 Defender 90 Td5 HT Epsom Green
Zed wrote:
I tend to agree. After reading, it looks like more government short sightedness. They've just kicked it down the road and instead given Chinese state owned companies billions to build our nuclear power stations.

What could possibly go wrong???


Not to mention that we are a small island, continually having houses built on is so where do you bury the spent radioactive rods that will take 300 years to become safe.

There’s a housing development near Reading that can’t have open fires or BBQ’s due to leaking radon gas.

Neutral
Post #928160 2nd Nov 2021 2:43am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
pjm-84



Member Since: 12 Apr 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 661

United Kingdom 
Tim in Scotland wrote:
No mention of the CO2 emitted transporting new EV’s made in Asia/USA all round the world on fossil fuel burning car carrying ships or the CO2 emitted flying some of their parts around the world too from China to the place of assembly.


The same transportation that also carries petrol / diesel powered cars? or parts that follow the same transports routes. More parts in a petrol / diesel powered vehicle as well. Thumbs Up
Post #928168 2nd Nov 2021 7:32am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
RobKeay



Member Since: 19 Jul 2009
Location: Stafford
Posts: 1579

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
Also the creation of petrol and diesel, how energy intense is that. People always go on about the energy and the fossil fuels used for electric. But how much energy/co2 (or any other nasty chemicals) go into the ground or the atmosphere. Natural disasters when the front falls off a ship and tons of crude oil pour out.

At work I’ve increasing brought battery kit. We have solar to charge so pretty clean. But one big factor is not having the risk of spilling fuel.

I’ll happily convert the 110’s engine to electric when that one goes pop. Not as if the 2.2 is a nice sounding engine.
Post #928172 2nd Nov 2021 8:19am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
pjm-84



Member Since: 12 Apr 2021
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 661

United Kingdom 
Yep, having "done" the first petrol station for Safeway back in 1992 and a few more to boot, there is quite a bit of equipment involved within the construction.... just saying.

And the ASDA brothers didn't come up with the concept of fuel and food / shopping at petrol stations Thumbs Up
Post #928176 2nd Nov 2021 8:49am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
RobKeay



Member Since: 19 Jul 2009
Location: Stafford
Posts: 1579

United Kingdom 2014 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 USW Corris Grey
Having a quick Google it takes 5-9 kWh per gallon to refine fuel. Then you need transport it using more fuel and pump it into the car using more electric.

That’s enough electric for for an electric car to do about 30 miles.

So if we don’t refine fuel there would be a fair amount of electric not being used. So this thread has certainly made me think.
Post #928183 2nd Nov 2021 9:21am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
LandRoverAnorak



Member Since: 17 Jul 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 11324

United Kingdom 
markb110 wrote:
There’s a housing development near Reading that can’t have open fires or BBQ’s due to leaking radon gas.

It's probably methane rather than radon as the latter isn't flammable. Darren

110 USW BUILD THREAD - EXPEDITION TRAILER - 200tdi 90 BUILD THREAD - SANKEY TRAILER - IG@landroveranorak

"You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought!" - Princess Leia
Post #928184 2nd Nov 2021 9:29am
View user's profile Send private message View poster's gallery Reply with quote
Post Reply  Back to top
Page 1 of 2 12>
All times are GMT

Jump to  
Previous Topic | Next Topic >
Posting Rules
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Site Copyright © 2006-2024 Futuranet Ltd & Martin Lewis
DEFENDER2.NET RSS Feed - All Forums