 | Home > Technical > A hypothetical conversation about...engine oil |
 
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4655  
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Had a conversation with someone the other night about....engine oil. (This will give you an idea as to what the rest of the conversation was like
 ). Anyway the nub of the conversion was, had engine oil of the early 1990's been of the same specifications and quality as it is today, would the servicing interval have been 12.000 miles/12 months instead of the 6.000 miles/6 months as then specified?
Even basic 10W-40 today is well advanced compared to oil of the early 1990's. When I bought a turbo diesel 90 in 1990 the specified oil/filter change was 3.000 miles but if I used a higher grade listed in the handbook it could be extended to 6.000 miles. We were just curious that if the same yard stick was applied to today's oil compared to the 1990's would the same principle apply? Now I will be the first to admit that the remainder of the conservation was not to this high level. We were not in a pub and no alcohol was consumed prior to or during the conversation. The aftermath is another matter  1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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26th Oct 2021 4:20pm |
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| Shroppy Member Since: 25 Feb 2016 Location: Shropshire Posts: 866  
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An interesting question and one I've pondered from time to time, I have done some reading on the subject but have settled on the following (happy to be proved wrong).
1. Super high service intervals are a false economy, lots of drivers will exceed it, pushing it up to 14,16, 18k miles. No engine will thank you for that no matter how fancy the oil. 2. I always opt to replace the oil and filter as often as practicable, typically around the 4-6k mark. I don't go for the fanciest oil, nor the cheapest. I figure this limits wear but also means I'm not pouring money (or oil) away for the sake of it. The above said, we are in a privileged position when we can consider such things! 1985 127 V8 Build Thread Series 2 109" Series 1 80" |
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26th Oct 2021 7:10pm |
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| 90 Dreamer Member Since: 13 Jul 2019 Location: Oop North Posts: 2148 
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Bear in mind that the main driver for extended service intervals (IMO) is the reduced fleet / HP cost and in general has no bearing on longevity but simply about keeping the fleet sales and lease customers on a lower payment.......
All puns intended.......  |
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26th Oct 2021 7:19pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3498 
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I agree 90 Dreamer
I am a firm believer that service intervals have largely been dictated by fleet buyers who with the best will in the world, would rather keep your monthly payments than spend it on servicing. If the engine blows up in 7 years time because it was poorly serviced, they will be long shot of the problem. I also agree that synthetic oils are far superior but servicing also includes things like inspections for faults like tyres for example. Most eurobox owners won’t even look at their tyres between services let alone check the pressure. It may be why the hourly rate and main dealer servicing has shot up in recent years, to try and recoup some of the lost monies? For example, in my experiences, most company lease vehicles are not serviced so much as ‘inspected’. That was what was written on my service books on numerous company cars. They only do what they are paid to do. For example, none of my old company cars ever had their tracking altered. None of the leasing companies would pay for it. They would replace tyres, valve, balance but not tracking - even if the tyres were being scrubbed out. But then they never put expensive tyres on the motors and I expect they got a better deal from ATS / National / Kwik Fit than what me and you would. That’s a little off subject but other factors come in to play. You can add the most expensive oil you can buy to an engine, but if you are doing lots short trips and hard working a cold engine, I don’t suppose any engine is going to do well on that? |
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26th Oct 2021 7:43pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4655
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I remember some years ago my company van went in for a service. The garage phoned the lease company to tell them that the hand brake needed tightened. It was not on the specified service and they would not tighten it until the lease company gave them the go ahead. The reason they would not do it without permission is they would not get paid for the extra time involved! 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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26th Oct 2021 7:51pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4655
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1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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26th Oct 2021 8:01pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3498
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Exactly the experience I had with leased vehicles, Spud Fan 👍
One of my company cars did 100k without an oil change (as far as I am aware). It got topped up but that was all. I knew the Aftersales Manager quite well. That’s how I know. Tyres were a nightmare at weekends as the leasing companies offices would be shut and tyre fitters were reluctant to do anything without the all important authorisation code 😳 |
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26th Oct 2021 8:04pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4655
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Could not even change a wiper blade or change a bulb! The lease company had a contract with a non local garage to do this. I'd phone my transport department, they would phone the lease company who would phone me for details then arrange for someone from the garage to come and change the bulb or the wiper blade which involved 40 mile round trip! I queried this non sensical behaviour with the company and they told me they had an all in deal with the lease company which covered these things. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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26th Oct 2021 8:39pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3498
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One of the lease companies my old company used told us to call the RAC if a lamp went and they would come out and change it
You have to feel for the garages / repair outfits. You know they are being screwed to the lowest possible price by a bloke in sales who made a big bonus out of the agreement. We had to use Dunlop tyres but the tyre place they insisted we used never stocked them. |
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26th Oct 2021 8:49pm |
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| Rashers Member Since: 21 Jun 2015 Location: Norfolk Posts: 3498
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I used to have Skoda Octavia’s. Great motors. I loved both mine. On top of the engine was a sticker ‘Skoda recommends Shell Helix’. The Main Dealer didn’t even stock Shell Helix. I expect the oil they used in servicing was bought in bulk and as long as it was the correct spec, everyone was a winner?
I have always wondered about commercial garages. The oil, water, air is dispensed from over head reels. Not all engines run the same spec oil but there only seems to be one dispenser over each work station. Anyone in the motor trade care to discuss? |
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26th Oct 2021 9:00pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4655
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I remember seeing a mechanic in overalls from a maindealer in a supermarket carrying a shopping basket with engine oil and screenwash in it. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel
1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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26th Oct 2021 9:12pm |
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| kenzle8a Member Since: 12 Feb 2020 Location: None Posts: 1074 
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I’ve always run fuchs titan pro s in my road cars, fantastic stuff. I’ve heard a lot of good things about the various millers oils as well. The manufacture recommended stuff is largely marketing bumf, my cooper s said castrol on the cam cover but bmw at the time only used Mobil for them, stuff like my chums m3 did have a specific oil for it but most run of the mill stuff needs the right grade / spec regardless of the brand.
My Alfas service manual said for winter driving to use 5w30 and summer or track use to use 10w50. |
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26th Oct 2021 9:59pm |
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| AT1963 Member Since: 08 Jul 2020 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 148 
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Maybe as worrying is the notion that when these cars are sold on with full service history this is stretching the truth.
TBH- id rather buy from someone who can show me the receipts for the items brought (filters etc) and record the mileage when they serviced and id be much happier even if they did service themselves. |
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27th Oct 2021 2:32pm |
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| spudfan Member Since: 10 Sep 2007 Location: Co Donegal Posts: 4655
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I mentioned this before a few years ago but as it seems relevant to the topic in hand I'll mention it again.
Someone who used to drive heavy earth moving machinery in far off places told me that they used to check how the oil was doing by pulling the dipstick through a finger and thumb and wiping them with a cloth. If all of the oil came off the fingers the oil was still good. If the oil left a residue that had to be washed off the fingers it was done and needed a change. Fair enough oil has moved on since then but the principle still holds. It is probably of no benefit to us as we would never go beyond specified service schedules but if you were buying a vehicle or going with someone to check over a vehicle it is a good way of checking the oil. You will know then if it has been changed or just run on old oil. I went with someone to look at a 110 some years ago as they had no experience of Land Rovers. When I was checking the oil the owner said that it was black as all diesels made oil black. I did they oil finger check and it stuck to my fingers like paint. I told him to walk away. The oil had not been changed for a long time. I know oil is carcinogenic but you will get more on your fingers doing an oil change. 1982 88" 2.25 diesel 1992 110 200tdi csw -Zikali 2008 110 2.4 tdci csw-Zulu 2011 110 2.4 tdci csw-Masai |
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27th Oct 2021 2:51pm |
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