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mangobay

Member Since: 11 Aug 2020
Location: Chepstow
Posts: 26

2008 Defender 90 Puma 2.4 CSW Epsom Green

Puma brakes lack bite

hi all
Hoping someone knowledgeable on the forum may be able to help me with a bit of advice please?
I have a 2008 Puma 90, drives really well in every respect apart from I cannot get the brake feel right. I have recently done the following:
- replaced some old flexihoses with proper OEM lines
- replaced rear discs and pads with OEM replaement
- upgraded front discs and pads using refurbished 110 AP calipers, and LOF vented discs and pads.

Each of those gave a moderate improvement but my high hopes for the front set up havent helped in the way I hoped they would!

The issue is best described as follows: the initial 50% of brake pedal travels seems spot on, really progressive and starts to bite nicely. The second half of the pedal travel however brings hardly any extra bite, so whereas in any normal scenario putting the pedal down more aggresively would bring you to a nice firm stop, its just gets wishy washy and no real improvement in stopping power. Ive driven other Defenders so this isnt just me hoping for more than the system is capable of, im sure its not right. I cannot lock up the wheels for example.

Im sure there's no air in the system and not convinced its a servo issue either as no matter how hard you press it doesnt improve, plus I have done the basic pedal-then-start test which works fine. Wondering if its maybe a master cylinder issue, but if anyone has any thoughts or similar experience, would be great to hear them

thanks in advance

11th Jul 2021 10:09am

NeedForTweed

Member Since: 02 Mar 2021
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 10

2011 Defender 90 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Orkney Grey

A few things I’d check:

Could be a slight leak somewhere when under pressure (bleed nipple for example). Is the fluid level constant in the reservoir or is it falling with use?

Is it fresh fluid or is it from an old, previously opened bottle? Brake fluid absorbs water from the air over time and this reduces its performance (you probably know this given the work you’ve already done!). I try to use a newly opened bottle every time if I can.

Could certainly be a fault with the servo itself. I’ve had them fail in a number of ways in other cars over the years. Once where the brakes were sticking on as the under bonnet temperature increased, and once where the servo assistance gradually fell away over several weeks until it was bum off seat time to affect a hard stop.

Good luck sorting it!

19th Jul 2021 10:26pm

mangobay

Member Since: 11 Aug 2020
Location: Chepstow
Posts: 26

Thanks very much for taking the time to write - all good thoughts.
Ive decided to give it to an expert to look at, so hope to hear back later this week, my bet is on a master cylinder or servo (vacuum pump) issue, but lets see. thanks again.

20th Jul 2021 6:47am

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1790

2008 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 CSW Alpine White

check wheel bearing play as well

20th Jul 2021 11:30am

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2304

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

Recently my servo vacuum pipe split and as a result left me with non-servo assisted brakes. All I will say is that you will know if this is the issue as you need to stamp on the pedal ultra hard to get any brake whatsoever!

Pull the vacuum pipe fitting from the servo then start the engine... Put your thumb over the pipe fitting, you should feel a strong vacuum. Perhaps the servo has a slight leak?

You bought my front calipers to refurb after I fitted new calipers all round... Got to be honest that whilst my brakes are now better, they are by no means amazing even with new wheel bearings, disks, pads, calipers (with stainless pistons), brake lines, vacuum pipe... I put it down to the sheer mass of the vehicle > 110 XS Double Cab

20th Jul 2021 12:17pm

ickle

Member Since: 22 Jul 2010
Location: South Vendee
Posts: 1790

^^^^^^
Exactly what Hank says, I did the same, everything new, swapped to Zeus pistons and still not great feel - but stand on the peddle and I can lock the wheels when stopping so all is working ok.

20th Jul 2021 12:31pm

hank

Member Since: 12 Sep 2016
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2304

Same. If I stamp on them the ABS quickly comes into play so I'm satisfied they're working to an acceptable standard, plus they performed well in the MOT, but they just don't feel as responsive as four pots I had on a previous track car... For obvious reasons I suppose > 110 XS Double Cab

20th Jul 2021 1:09pm

mangobay

Member Since: 11 Aug 2020
Location: Chepstow
Posts: 26

Thanks guys much appreciated.
Im not expecting miracles with the new kit but I know its not working as it should (and I cannot get the ABS/lock up to happen however hard I stamp currently). Early diagnosis from my local guy is that vacuum pump isnt supporting the servo in th way it should so hopefully that will resolve it. I will ocnfirmon here for future reference.

@Hank, your calipers cleaned up great by the way - they look amazing even if the car isnt currently stopping properly

20th Jul 2021 1:17pm

mangobay

Member Since: 11 Aug 2020
Location: Chepstow
Posts: 26

I’m case useful for future reference, we ended up changing the both the servo and the master cylinder in the end. Spent more than I wanted to but the result was worth it. I now have awesome brakes! Thanks all for the input.

23rd Jul 2021 6:03pm

landy andy

Member Since: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ware, Herts
Posts: 5741

2006 Defender 110 Td5 USW Zermatt Silver

Mmmm, might have to go the same way then. Was hoping you, so I would have a cheaper solution. No happy with my brakes, even though I’ve changed most things.

Where did you get the parts from and what was the cost?

23rd Jul 2021 8:08pm

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