 | Home > V8 > 300Tdi to 4.6 |
 
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| GREENI Member Since: 22 Aug 2010 Location: staffs Posts: 10381  
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I’ll decline to comment as i went with auto and GEMS and won’t get into a debate as why
You will benefit from v8 engine mounts and a v8 rad, also a GENUINE Bosch 044 fuel pump. |
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14th Dec 2020 2:09pm |
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| JimC Member Since: 22 Jan 2011 Location: NOVA Posts: 164  
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This isn’t that bad. 14CUX only uses a few wires to tie into the main harness, mega squirt might be less. You can build a stand alone harness or perhaps adapt one from a Range Rover or something. The motor mounts are different but easily done. The gearbox crossmember is not used, instead you’d need separate chassis mounts and the tubular crossmember that clears the exhaust- again, this is common to Range Rover. All that stuff just bolts on. Even though you’ve got a different length bell housing and r380, the t-case still lands in the same place so you don’t need new driveshafts.
Trans oil cooler is totally optional, only the 1193 NAS 110 (lt77) and 1997 NAS 90 (with auto trans) had them. If you can part out an old 5-speed disco you’re most of the way there. The rad and shroud is defender specific tho. |
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14th Dec 2020 2:24pm |
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| Shroppy Member Since: 25 Feb 2016 Location: Shropshire Posts: 866 
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I'm going through this process at the moment, though my base vehicle was originally a 3.5 with LT85 gearbox, a few pointers which may or may not help;
- You can pick up a GEMS 4.6 fairly easily and cheaply, the GEMS system is excellent, I personally wouldn't go with 14CUX (lacks the refinement of later systems) or Megasquirt (expensive). I am a bit biased though as Mark Adams of Tornado Systems is a good friend of mine, he's the chap to speak to about wiring them up. - Finding a GEMS engine with a manual flywheel is hard, there are a few 4.0 manuals about but I've not personally seen any 4.6s (doesn't mean they don't exist). I picked up a NOS flywheel from V8 developments, Rakeway also make them. Not cheap but you'd need a trigger ring of some description for MS anyway. - As Greeni suggests, RV8 engine mounts would be a big help as it will allow you to have everything in the 'factory' position. Without reminding myself I can't remember how the transmission is supported in a 300tdi? Suspect it's the later type crossmember where the LT230 sits on square rubbers? I *think* your current props will work as the correct engine position and V8 bellhousing should mean your tbox doesn't move, could be wrong. - You'd need to swap the pinion from your R380 to a V8 one as the spigot bearing dia. and pinion length is different, not an awful job but whilst you're going to the trouble I'd be tempted upgrade to a later Suffix K or L R380 as I suspect yours may be a Suffix J or earlier? The later (TD5) boxes were revised to include improved bearings and teeth on the layshaft(?). - The R380-V8 bellhousing was also used in Discos so you might find a cheaper one from a breakers as opposed to buying from Ashcroft. I opted to buy a complete suffix J V8 R380 and Lt230 from a disco and swap the bellhousing, 5th gear and oil cooler over to a Suffix L box. - As above, a gearbox oil cooler isn't necessary but its certainly not a bad idea. - You won't be able to use the P38 headers so budget for a set of Defender fitment ones, you can probably reuse the tail section from your current exhaust if needs be. - Radiator - probably, V8s need lots of cooling so the full width V8 one would be a big benefit. The viscous fan on a GEMS engine works well or, you could opt for electric and do away with the need for a cowling. Happy to help if I can. You're in the right place for support. 1985 127 V8 Build Thread Series 2 109" Series 1 80" |
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14th Dec 2020 4:20pm |
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| Rednaxela Member Since: 23 Sep 2019 Location: UK Posts: 41
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The information is appreciated, thank you. May boil down to whether or not - or when - I will find a unit nearby to look at.
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15th Dec 2020 2:35pm |
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 727  
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I have a similar ongoing project on the go myself Rednaxela, that being:
Rover v8 GEMS ECU with the Tornado systems chip R380 gearbox although I did start with a genuine 110 v8, so I didn't have to worry about changing the engine mounts. I opted to go for 'as new' parts where possible, so Richard's chassis, remanufactured engine, and rebuilt R380 from Dave at Ashcroft, who also supplied the appropriate bellhousing. Because of all the new parts, its cost me a small fortune. Thankfully as I am the worlds slowest mechanic (4 years now... oO) it has allowed me to spread the cost, as I would not have been able to finance it in one hit. Sticky points have been: Manual GEMS flywheel. Not available new - so you are looking on ebay for a second hand one from a RangeRover P38, and you can take a guess as how many manual RangeRovers there were. Having said that, I did get hold of one, and they do come up so its certainly possible - but expect to pay a lot. Exhaust manifolds. There isn't that much room between the chassis rails, especially considering the sensors (knock and flywheel position) that sit on the GEMs engine. I originally bought a tubular manifold, but its really really right to fit it, and really requires a bit of 'denting' of the tubes to increase the clearance. I'm now trying Range Rover classic manifolds, which have much more clearance, but when you run into needing a bit more of a 'custom' exhaust system, depending on which gearbox cross member you are using. Hopefully this will not turn out to be a big problem, but its something to be aware of. For a fuel pump, I was recommended by the engine builder (ACR) to use a standard P38 in-tank pump. I'm not sure if this is the Bosch 044 fuel pump which Greeni referred to - but it required a customer fuel tank to fit. Fortunately as I wanted a bigger tank anyway, I have had a 110 litre'ish tank made up specifically to fit this p38 pump unit. 2005 Td5 90 XS 1989 V8 110 CSW |
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15th Dec 2020 3:10pm |
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| Rednaxela Member Since: 23 Sep 2019 Location: UK Posts: 41
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Hmm, I've returned to the conversion planning process with a heightened desire.
Current preference is to use a Land Rover spec ECU rather than megasquirt as some people imply that it can be pretty technical to set up. But also for a more 'factory', less aftermarket feel. Therefore, with a 4.6 I'm concerned I may also have a bit of a headache trying to install a gems ECU. I was wondering if I could use a 14CUX (as mentioned by Jim) with the 4.6 instead. Or perhaps an outfit like Tornado systems could modify a gems ECU to prevent it from looking for p38 specific functions when installed into the 90? I'm also thinking about a using a 3.9 14CUX EFI, after all I know of a 3.9 with a manual flywheel, but perhaps, in the effort involved in the V8 installation I'd be better off getting something bigger or I may only regret it. Also, I can't quite bring myself to install something which is more than several years older than the 300Tdi I already have. Any thoughts/input please?! Thank you |
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26th Jun 2021 3:46pm |
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| Romadog Member Since: 07 Jul 2011 Location: Powys Posts: 1749 |
Agree with Shroppy and Greeni.
Tornado will map your GEMS ECU for correct application. Basically ship it to them and pay them some dosh... they will then send it back with their sticker on it, having done the biz to it also, just takes a while before you see the results as you need to finish the build  |
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26th Jun 2021 4:42pm |
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| Rednaxela Member Since: 23 Sep 2019 Location: UK Posts: 41
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4.6 now on its way.
Re. exhausts... Surely I will need catalytic converters? Just that I've seen a fair few who cobble together exhausts without cats. |
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6th Jul 2021 12:48pm |
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| Hufflepuff Member Since: 25 Oct 2014 Location: Hampshire Posts: 727
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Interesting point. I think it was 1992 in the UK where they became mandatory, so your 1998 vehicle would fall into that category.
I circumvented that little spanner in the works as I have a 1989 vehicle. I guess it shouldn't be *too* hard to fit a pair in somehow, but it will be another expense. 2005 Td5 90 XS 1989 V8 110 CSW |
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6th Jul 2021 2:13pm |
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| Linds Hanson Member Since: 16 Jan 2021 Location: Cornwall Posts: 485
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I would use 3.9 RRC or D1 front pipes which bolt straight up to a TD5 90 system which sounds good and is free flow. R380 does need a oil cooler due to engine heat soak and Swepco oil. Would recomend staying with 1.4 transfer but having Discovery V8 5th gear fitted. All trans mounts from D1 V8 will bolt straight in but you will need to add some extra metal along bottom of D1 V8 x member because Defender chassis is deeper than D1/RRC. Use 19J turbo diesel 90/110 rad as it is large and has a eng oil cooler built in.
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8th Jul 2021 12:56pm |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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Ive just finished my build and its pretty much exactly what your planning. happy to talk you through it. ive literally made ALL the mistakes lol.
 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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8th Jul 2021 7:35pm |
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| Rednaxela Member Since: 23 Sep 2019 Location: UK Posts: 41
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If I could find a defender 50th system, cats/Y-piece...
As has been mentioned anyway, I was thinking I ought to use the silencer/rear section I have as they are Stainless and in good order. Linds, I will probably send the R380 to Ashcrofts to get rebuilt/strengthened. I wasn't completely sure about the higher 5th - was thinking maybe get a Roamerdrive instead. Currently with the 300Tdi there are many roads I use where 4th is just a bit too low and 5th a bit too high, but of course it would be a bit different with the V8 I presume. Yep, I've read a bit about the 19J td radiator being a good option, I see AlliSport do a Defender V8/50th radiator, and would save me from having to get and older one re-cored. |
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8th Jul 2021 7:36pm |
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| Rednaxela Member Since: 23 Sep 2019 Location: UK Posts: 41
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Mike, I've seen some of your thread and it's amazing, enjoy. HufflePuff's looks like it'll be incredible also. Yes there'll be lots of things to figure out, fortunately there's a lot of info out there now also.
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8th Jul 2021 7:38pm |
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| mikeh501 Member Since: 07 Jan 2013 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1142
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No probs, and if your based anywhere near staffs your welcome to come and have a look. greeni is this way too. i learnt so much by just looking at how other v8s are put together. its all the little brackets and parts you dont think about. the big bits are contained in this thread so its a good start!
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8th Jul 2021 7:45pm |
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