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macfrank

Member Since: 05 Nov 2015
Location: somewhere in the north
Posts: 1083

2015 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 SW Keswick Green

Yes, sorry, I was referring to my Puma 2.2. I din't look at Profyaffle's avatar

So not a good idea for those modern old cars then

28th Feb 2017 1:48pm

smb

Member Since: 15 Jan 2013
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 1232

2011 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 XS CSW Santorini Black

The Engine running dry must shortly be a better scenario than having the car stolen and you never seeing it again?

28th Feb 2017 1:54pm

mse

Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5054

2016 Defender 110 Puma 2.2 XS CSW Scotia Grey

The special fuel primer tool isnt actually required to restart them - but it helps...i did begin to wondered a few years ago, but it eventually took.

I thought it auto sensed no fuel or poor pressure and shut down to protect itself. Mike

28th Feb 2017 2:27pm

zsd-puma

Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

2010 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 USW Santorini Black

I think the 2.2 will probably restart without the priming tool as it has an electric in tank pump. Whereas the 2.4 doesn't.

28th Feb 2017 2:36pm

mse

Member Since: 06 Apr 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 5054

it was the 2.4 i got going, not needed to do it on the 2.2

the worse one ever was the 1.8tdci in a ford - no matter how much i primed it, i couldnt get it to go - 2hours later and it did...i think the battery gets a bit weak after a while Mike

28th Feb 2017 3:16pm

Low-Range

Member Since: 30 Sep 2016
Location: BC
Posts: 41

Saw an excellent anti theft device...locks clutch and break together.

28th Feb 2017 4:21pm

blackwolf

Member Since: 03 Nov 2009
Location: South West England
Posts: 17541

2007 Defender 110 Puma 2.4 DCPU Stornoway Grey

shaggydog wrote:
...Puma's especially can be a nightmare to get running again as you need special bleeding pumps (I believe for 2.4?)

A common misconception! There is no lift pump in the tank on a 2.4. so the LP pump on the engine won't self-prime. LR mandates the use of a manual (rubber bladder type) bleed pump, but there are plenty of ways round the problem. The simplest is to extend the tank breather somewhere clean (a good idea in its own right) and blow down it.

The 2.2 I believe has a lift pump in the tank and I imagine is therefore easier.

To be honest, though, as an anti-theft device I think it is a good idea. If the villains steal my Puma, and it apparently runs out of fuel down the road, I am entirely happy if they can't bleed the system and get it running quickly since it allows more time for detection and recovery. I think "officialdom" might frown upon it since you cannot predict where it will stop, so it could be on a level crossing or somewhere equally catastrophic.

If I was going down this route, I'd also swtich the tank sensor so that the gauge showed empty.

Come to think of it, on a Puma if you switch the tank sensor so that the gauge shows empty, the ECU will put the vehicle into low fuel strategy mode since it will think there's no fuel, and will stop the engine and inhibit start in short time anyway thus achieving the same result as a solenoid or valve. Unless the villains are savvy enough to dip the tank they'll have no way of knowing if it has genuinely run out or not. You won't have to rebleed either since it won't actually have run out of fuel.

28th Feb 2017 4:27pm

zsd-puma

Member Since: 09 Aug 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 2720

mse wrote:
it was the 2.4 i got going, not needed to do it on the 2.2

the worse one ever was the 1.8tdci in a ford - no matter how much i primed it, i couldnt get it to go - 2hours later and it did...i think the battery gets a bit weak after a while

And while it's cranking there's a good chance the pump is running without any lubrication.

1st Mar 2017 12:09am

Jim G

Member Since: 21 Jul 2014
Location: Ormskirk
Posts: 92

1984 Defender 90 300 Tdi HT Stornoway Grey

I have a 300TDI.
On this engine I just broke into the wire that feeds power to the fuel shut off valve on the pump, this is how the engine is stopped when the ignition is switched off, and fitted a hidden switch. this causes no harm as you are just stopping it as per normal ( or not allowing the engine to start) , I have had this on mine for 3 years and had no problems ( except occasionally forgetting the switch and trying to start

) I have even shut the engine off AT IDLE with this switch, no problem. 1984 300TDi hardtop Stornoway Grey
1984 200TDi hardtop..... soon to be a V8 .. but which V8 ?
1974 DAF T244 4x4 wagon converted to a motorhome
1976 Jaguar XJC with supercharged engine

5th Mar 2017 9:35am

xcentric

Member Since: 17 Jan 2016
Location: Midlands
Posts: 247

layers layers layers.....

fitting a hidden switch into an existing circuit is a good idea, but useless if they have bypassed all switches by connecting the battery directly to it - which is where a separate fuel cutoff will then prove its worth.

As for basic electronics on a switch, it's the same whether you use a headphone-type jack or similar - usually open, but something makes it closed..... explore online, you'll find a number of different 'switches' ranging from a toggle switch to an rfid one to one you have to insert something into.....

good luck. Reminds me I must fit my fuel solenoid switch too.....

5th Mar 2017 3:40pm

nitram17

Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261

zsd-puma wrote:
I think the 2.2 will probably restart without the priming tool as it has an electric in tank pump. Whereas the 2.4 doesn't.

judt looking at some old security stuff .... i forgot about my fuel cut of switch on my 2,2 puma ran for about a mile then stalled......i had to purge the air out before the 2,2 would start.

30th May 2021 10:49am

nitram17

Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261

blackwolf wrote:
shaggydog wrote:
...Puma's especially can be a nightmare to get running again as you need special bleeding pumps (I believe for 2.4?)

A common misconception! There is no lift pump in the tank on a 2.4. so the LP pump on the engine won't self-prime. LR mandates the use of a manual (rubber bladder type) bleed pump, but there are plenty of ways round the problem. The simplest is to extend the tank breather somewhere clean (a good idea in its own right) and blow down it.

The 2.2 I believe has a lift pump in the tank and I imagine is therefore easier.

To be honest, though, as an anti-theft device I think it is a good idea. If the villains steal my Puma, and it apparently runs out of fuel down the road, I am entirely happy if they can't bleed the system and get it running quickly since it allows more time for detection and recovery. I think "officialdom" might frown upon it since you cannot predict where it will stop, so it could be on a level crossing or somewhere equally catastrophic.

If I was going down this route, I'd also swtich the tank sensor so that the gauge showed empty.

Come to think of it, on a Puma if you switch the tank sensor so that the gauge shows empty, the ECU will put the vehicle into low fuel strategy mode since it will think there's no fuel, and will stop the engine and inhibit start in short time anyway thus achieving the same result as a solenoid or valve. Unless the villains are savvy enough to dip the tank they'll have no way of knowing if it has genuinely run out or not. You won't have to rebleed either since it won't actually have run out of fuel.

hi blackwolf by switching the tank gauge sensor do you mean putting a cutoff switch in the cable or reversing the wires so full is empty and empty is full? on a 2.2 where is the sensor? sorry if this is a blonde question!

30th May 2021 10:58am

nitram17

Member Since: 08 Jun 2014
Location: newcastle
Posts: 2261

blackwolf wrote:
shaggydog wrote:
...Puma's especially can be a nightmare to get running again as you need special bleeding pumps (I believe for 2.4?)

A common misconception! There is no lift pump in the tank on a 2.4. so the LP pump on the engine won't self-prime. LR mandates the use of a manual (rubber bladder type) bleed pump, but there are plenty of ways round the problem. The simplest is to extend the tank breather somewhere clean (a good idea in its own right) and blow down it.

The 2.2 I believe has a lift pump in the tank and I imagine is therefore easier.

To be honest, though, as an anti-theft device I think it is a good idea. If the villains steal my Puma, and it apparently runs out of fuel down the road, I am entirely happy if they can't bleed the system and get it running quickly since it allows more time for detection and recovery. I think "officialdom" might frown upon it since you cannot predict where it will stop, so it could be on a level crossing or somewhere equally catastrophic.

If I was going down this route, I'd also swtich the tank sensor so that the gauge showed empty.

Come to think of it, on a Puma if you switch the tank sensor so that the gauge shows empty, the ECU will put the vehicle into low fuel strategy mode since it will think there's no fuel, and will stop the engine and inhibit start in short time anyway thus achieving the same result as a solenoid or valve. Unless the villains are savvy enough to dip the tank they'll have no way of knowing if it has genuinely run out or not. You won't have to rebleed either since it won't actually have run out of fuel.

30th May 2021 10:58am

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