 | Home > Puma (Tdci) > 2.2. and 2.4 power difference. |
 
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| ericvv Member Since: 02 Jun 2011 Location: Near the Jet d'Eau Posts: 5816   
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As per all my Defender brochures from 2008 until 2015 model years, the 2.4 and 2.2 are clearly identical power and torque. That was also always communicated like that by JLR at the change from the 2.4 to the 2.2 Puma engine.
Both are 90 kW/122 HP with 90% of that available between 2200 and 4350 rpm. Both have a max torque of 360 Nm at 2000 rpm. The main difference is the engine compression which is lower for the 2.2. (15.5:1 for the 2.2 versus 17.5:1 for the 2.4) You clearly notice that difference when using engine brake to slow down going downhill. The 2.4 has distinctly better engine brake power than the 2.2. The 2.4 has an electronic speed limiter to 132 kph, the 2.2 saw that increased to 145 kph. Eric You never actually own a Defender. You merely look after it for the next generation. http://youtu.be/yVRlSsJwD0o https://youtu.be/vmPr3oTHndg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GtzTT9Pdl0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABqKPz28e6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLZ49Jce_n0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvAsz_ilQYU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8tMHiX9lSw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxwjPuHIV7I https://vimeo.com/201482507 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSixqL0iyHw |
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10th Apr 2021 8:09am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018  
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 Click image to enlarge Click image to enlarge |
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10th Apr 2021 8:24am |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 499  
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Today most engines for construction and infrastructure works are equipped with DPF. If a different torque was measurable, I'd check for EGR and turbo/intercooler first. Looking at the two 110, I'm just wondering if their weight Will be comparable... One naked and the other equipped with winch+bumper, roof rack and a huge cargo box. It is no surprise, that the white one is sluggish |
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10th Apr 2021 7:35pm |
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| HardCharger Member Since: 03 Mar 2013 Location: Manila Posts: 740  
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So what's the sweet spot RPM to shift? 2,250 to 2,300 rpm to get the max power per range? Or am I understanding the curves wrong?  |
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11th Apr 2021 9:56am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3425  
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I loved diesels that had a flat torque curve.
The tdci has the peak torque for a brief rpm range 😟 Personally, it feel like it needs a lot of gear changes to stay in the power band. Interesting that the 2.2 and 2.4 have exact same characteristics. How is it possible with quite some physical differences between the two. I am not sure if I trust those charts. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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11th Apr 2021 10:08am |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 499
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Don't forget the turbo and high pressure injection.
And if you really need 350 Nm, you'll do loads of gear changes. If you just need the 290 Nm you can get from a TDI, you'll get these most of the time. 300TDI is a bit flatter, yes, because of its lower peak : https://www.mdengineering.co.uk/international-hs-2-8l-300-tdi/ |
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12th Apr 2021 8:24pm |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Yes it does look suspiciously like the marketing team have just used the old "artwork" in the new model brochure. |
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13th Apr 2021 6:09am |
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| glpinxit Member Since: 31 Jul 2010 Location: rural Somerset Posts: 156
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No, you are mis-reading the graphs as they have omitted the lower y-axis. The graph shows that the engine is producing at least 85% of maximum torque (>300Nm) between 1500rpm and 3000rpm. However I think that electronic jiggery-pokery limits this in all gears except 6th. If you want a sports car then it an odd choice to buy a Defender. Cheers, Guy. |
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14th Apr 2021 9:00am |
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| glpinxit Member Since: 31 Jul 2010 Location: rural Somerset Posts: 156
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[duplicate post] Cheers, Guy.
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14th Apr 2021 9:00am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3425
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I did notice that the scale does not start at 0, although I do not understand what that 80Nm is doing there on a linear scale!! Maybe the photoshop artist made a mistake because he did not know what the numbers mean?
What I say is that there is 42% reduction in usable torque towards the extremes if the rpm range. Unfortunately this drop is sharper as you go on lower rpm. Agree, Defenders are not sports cars, and that is exactly why it needs high torque, to tackle difficult terrain or for towing without the need to get the engine screaming and the clutch smoking. But luckily the tdci has the antistall, so what I just wrote is irrelevant, it revs the engine and eats clutches for you. We all know that once you shift in low range on a tdci, the rpm stays above 1000 once clutch is released. Im sure that JLR know what they were doing. Edit. I realize that the photoshop artist masked the 1 from the 180Nm.  1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing
2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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14th Apr 2021 9:17am |
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| blackwolf Member Since: 03 Nov 2009 Location: South West England Posts: 17450 
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I'm pretty sure that the leading digit "1" was missed off and it should be 180, however it is interesting that it is the same on both sets of artwork and this suggests both re-use and shocking incompetence. Edit - posted whilst you were editing your post! |
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14th Apr 2021 9:22am |
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| Dinnu Member Since: 24 Dec 2019 Location: Lija Posts: 3425
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Indeed Blackwolf.
Then the question is: which one (if any) is correct? The map for the 2.2 (or at least the ECU) is something that JLR had tweaked. I am sure about this because I tried to connect Forscan on my 2.2 and unfortunately (depending which way you look at it) it was not detected as a Transit. Forscan does not work on 2.2, but read online that works on 2.4, though never tried myself. 1988 90 Hard Top, 19J Diesel Turbo, Shire Blue - Restoration ongoing 2012 90 CSW, 2.2TDCI, Santorini Black |
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14th Apr 2021 11:11am |
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| Supacat Member Since: 16 Oct 2012 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 11018
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Didn't Bell Auto take some baseline readings before remapping?
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14th Apr 2021 4:27pm |
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| Julie Member Since: 07 Oct 2017 Location: Nantes Posts: 499
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Hello boys, we're not in the 1950s. Automotive industries have changed ... Both are correct. It's the electronic engine management making it possible |
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14th Apr 2021 7:30pm |
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