 | Home > Technical > Can +2” Shocks be used with std height springs? |
 
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 685  
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Ridiculous isnt it.
I actually contacted 12v planet a few months ago to say look guys you're losing business here I'm having to buy equivalent stuff off eBay just because your packaging and postal options are making you uncompetitive, to both me and a lot of other hobby type enthusiasts, and effectively got told they're just not bothered. Fine by me I tried to help. I want to use reputable companies for goods and help them out but if I'm paying £4.99 for a fuse holder and fuse, and £7.99 for shipping, it's going to end up coming from eBay. Who will ship it for £3.99, from the other side of the world. The frustration is that that's then a Chinese part not an OEM style or quality one. But for the majority of stuff? Heat shrink? The odd terminal etc? Just doesn't matter. Hey ho. |
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9th Mar 2021 5:21pm |
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| Badger110 Member Since: 06 Feb 2018 Location: South hams Posts: 1039 
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I've spent a little time on GwynLewis website looking at bits n bobs and this page
https://gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/gwyn-lewis-expl...t-pricing/ is helpful in understanding the process of fitting OME shocks ( 2" front and 3" rear ) However he has listed the springs as +1 too... I've emailed him with the relevant questions outlined to get these to fit, it would be great if we can get some answers from someone who has a wealth of experience in this field  |
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11th Mar 2021 3:55am |
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 685
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Absolutely. Good plan.
I also sent a few emails but was getting concerned when the answer was that we couldn't fit roll bars. I can't do that as the vehicle won't be safe for it's high roof load trips with tent etc. So I started looking into how to keep the front standard bump stop etc using the +2" turrets, and make roll bar spaced to avoid the dreaded inversion problem with the links. Be interesting to see what Gwyn says we end up with. EDIT:  Just noticed having re-read that that you can still fit a front bar, just the rear that you can't. Which is better than i thought. I wonder what the reason is for not being able to fit the rear, and if we could just limit the downward travel or space the bar to make it work. If the reason is "well you won't get great downward travel or articulation because it will limit the travel" then my personal use case says, hey ho, no worries, that's acceptable. If it's because the links would invert and there'd be a physical problem, thats not good. |
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11th Mar 2021 8:47am |
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| felixp Member Since: 29 Oct 2020 Location: Bavaria Posts: 39 
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Im not an suspension expert so excuse me if this is a stupid question..
I also got a pair of 2" Fox Performance 2.0 Shocks which I would like to use in my 110 TD4. Would this be a cheap/easy solution in order to keep the original standard height springs? Seems to good to be true, what are the downsides? https://www.nakatanenga.de/en/vehicle-equi...lift?c=560 What else would be needed to mount these on my vehicle besides longer springs? New Turrets in the front to make space for the resouvoir, any thing else? My vehicle has an standard anti roll bar fitted. Is a new cardan shaft always necessary? I could live with the 30mm lift the spacers provide, don't really need the full 50mm! Thanks in advance for your help & sorry for all the questions... I have lots of experience with Fox Shocks on my MTBs but cars are a whole new playground for me  |
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17th Mar 2021 12:55pm |
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 685
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The spring length is effectively the last of the problems to solve to be honest.
Per the other posts, the issues are mainly the compressed shock length Vs standard bump stops, and the turret height relationship at the front. The rear is pretty easy. Bump stops, dislocation cones, spring retainers. Badger might know more now if Gwyn has replied on the subject. |
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17th Mar 2021 1:06pm |
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| felixp Member Since: 29 Oct 2020 Location: Bavaria Posts: 39
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Ah ok, I see. I thought that if the spring length would come towards the length the shock was intended to be used with (2" lift) I wouldn't have these problems.
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17th Mar 2021 2:14pm |
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| Matt110 Member Since: 29 Jun 2014 Location: UK Posts: 685
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Not really because the spring still compresses and extends to the limits set by either the shock or the bump stop.
By fitting a longer or lift spring you just sit the shock in a different extension position. The worry is that that spring when fully compressed should a) not be the travel limiter (you can't have a coil that completely collapses) as this must be done by the bump stop, and b) the shock can't be the limiting factor in upward travel either or you'll damage the shock. What we're trying to figure out is whether with these fox shocks you need longer bump stops or not, or if fitting +2" height turrets solves the issue. Spring riser blocks like the one you show are cheap and simple to do, but increase the risk of the coil becoming coilbound... I.e. coils touching together. So they're not ideal. |
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17th Mar 2021 3:57pm |
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| felixp Member Since: 29 Oct 2020 Location: Bavaria Posts: 39
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Thanks for the clarification Matt! I'll follow this thread then
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18th Mar 2021 8:23am |
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| Badger110 Member Since: 06 Feb 2018 Location: South hams Posts: 1039
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I did get some feedback from Gwyn based on the questions I put to him for parts needed on his website and we agreed the minimum needed are as follows;
For the front ( puma model 110 ) GL1056 Pair Front STD Height H/Duty Turrets (inc Relocator) GALV GL1053 Pair Turret Securing Rings H/Duty GL1054 Pair Front Spring Retainers GL1057B-2 Pair Front Extended Bump Stops BLACK Pair of Puma front brake hoses For the rear ( puma model 110 ) GL1065 Pair Rear Springs re locators Chall 110/130 GL1182 Pair Rear Spring Retainers HD Round 110/130 GL1057B-2 Pair Rear Extended Bump Stops BLACK NRC4317-2 Pair Rear Spring Seats Galv 110/130 Gwyn also suggested removing the rear Anti Roll Bar as on full articulation, this can 'flip' over. Also fitting the Cranked trailing arms; GL1073 Pair Rear Trailing Arms Cranked BLACK Extra/H/Duty can help, but not sure if it's necessary for such a small increased articulation Whether you use the Gwyn Lewis stuff or any other branded items, the list seems to be the correct way to fit the 2" extended shocks on standard springs for a 110. If you visit the relevant page on his site https://gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/gwyn-lewis-expl...t-pricing/ it will give you the details for his 3" lift kit using OME shocks and 1" - 2" extended springs which the above list was compiled from. If anyone has more information/experience to add, please do Cheers |
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18th Mar 2021 5:39pm |
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| felixp Member Since: 29 Oct 2020 Location: Bavaria Posts: 39
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Thanks for sharing, this is great info! I will probably also go this route as I don't really need the lift anyway.
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18th Mar 2021 6:07pm |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8051  
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If your dislocating on the rear and its eye top shock mount just be careful how shocks are fitted, washer spacing etc, dont clamp the bush. Fox ones you have may be pin pi n for rear? In which case don't worry.
Fronts not an issue as angle of shock is fixed. Ref fitting a shock I a slightly compressed state rather than its true middle of travel isint an issue among as you don't compress shock to full bump, ie axle hits bumpstop first. Upward travel may be limited with this over std but will have increased downward movement. Consider extended hoses front if dropping 2" more. We did some trial work on builds pre coil overs for those wishing to increase travel, so have tried most things and spent a fair few hours chatting with gwyn, Simon buck over the years on it. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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18th Mar 2021 7:11pm |
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| felixp Member Since: 29 Oct 2020 Location: Bavaria Posts: 39
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I've ordered 99% of the parts now which will hopefully arrive soon! Gwyn Lewis turrets, cones etc.
Just to more things I haven't figured out. What are the chances I can keep my standard brake hoses? @jst - You said consider extended front hoses - the rears are not the problem then? I will be running the +2" Fox shocks with spring isolators front and a spacer rear, giving me a moderat 20mm lift front and rear. I decided to go this way to compensate for the weight of roof tent, tree sliders etc. Another issue are the sway bars I would really like to keep as the vehicle does a lot of road driving. I've seen spacer blocks which go between the sway bar and frame, would these work for my setup? If so, what is the best way to determine the extra height? One step closer... thanks for all the help! |
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24th Mar 2021 9:42am |
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| jst Member Since: 14 Jan 2008 Location: Taunton Posts: 8051
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sway bar mountings can be made by std box section and bolts through with tubbed inserts to stop compression. as the bar rotates it doesnt matter to the mm the height drop on them a rough guide is fine. measure the angle prior to lifting the vehicle and compare that to a std loaded vehicle. then lift it and remount the sway bar making a section the height you need determined from the angles measured.
20mm height increase then std fronts will probably work fine, just check on full lock at bump if flex to back of calipers, if standard just check on full bump they are not stretched. on the rear there is one flexi on std setup at the A frame leg mount to chassis, the length here is fixed the angle of a frame to chassis just changes at rest , even with more drop and greater angle you will find std flexi will be fine, just check it after fitting. a great many that fit longer hoses doe it as part of an upgrade to braided hoses. braided rear is worth it, longer rear prob not needed. Cheers James 110 2012 XS Utility 130 2011 M57 bespoke Camper 90 2010 Hardtop 90 M57 1988 Hardtop |
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24th Mar 2021 10:17am |
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| felixp Member Since: 29 Oct 2020 Location: Bavaria Posts: 39
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Okay, thanks! I'll report back once I have installed the shocks.
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24th Mar 2021 4:20pm |
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