Philip wrote:

lohr500 wrote:

But yet, Jeep (Wrangler), Mercedes (G Wagen), Suzuki (Jimny), and Ford (New Bronco) all seem capable of producing vehicles that meet 21st century construction regulations, whilst still retaining their classic design lineage

Those four are good examples, because each one of them is as far away from an authentic utility vehicle as it’s possible to get.

The Wrangler is just a leisure toy that only Americans would buy (and 1* NCAP isn’t really cutting it in the 21st Century), the Jimny (as likeable as it may be) is of no real use for anything at all. The Bronco is another marketing-led pastiche - literally a T6 Ranger in a frock with some camp accessories, whilst the W463A G Class is possibly the most cynical new car you can buy - a car which will never, ever go off-road, will never be available in commercial or utility form, but is compromised by the sort of underpinnings you’d expect in a £25k pickup, all in an attempt to give it the credibility it will never have.

Cheshire110 wrote:

LR sold 20,000 defenders last year

Cheshire110 wrote:

We all live the old defender but it barely managed 15k/year even at peak 'nostalgia' right before the end...

Cheshire110 wrote:

Was the 2nd best selling vehicle in the whole range (very slightly behind Disco Sport) in December.

Click image to enlarge
For the reporting period Q3 2021 - which is how LR want to report sales now the Defender was actually 4th, behind Disco Sport, Evoque and RRS Sport.

Cheshire110 wrote:

Only worry for LR is perhaps that defender might be stealing sales from the Disco 5...

Cheshire110 wrote:

Seems to me that making a niche, low volume, low margin 4x4 probably wasn’t the most sensible option for LR.

Cheshire110 wrote:

They set out to build the most capable and desirable 4x4 out there

Philip wrote:

The old Defender was a complete anachronism and there was no way on earth anything other than an entirely new car was feasible.

Philip wrote:

The Grenadire is an embarrassing rip-off vanity project...

Talking of vanity projects - what would you call JLR's project to increase production to 1 million vehicles per annum? I believe some in JLR called it Project Icarus

Philip wrote:

The Wrangler is just a leisure toy that only Americans would buy

And the Spanish...

Click image to enlarge

Philip wrote:

The Bronco is another marketing-led pastiche

Philip wrote:

some camp accessories

Muddybigdog wrote:

I do cringe at the thought of how long will it be before we start seeing the new Defenders being sold for less money than the old defender? Back of an envelope modelling of current residuals it’s about 3 years we will see a 3 year old defender worth less than a 13 year old defender, especially if residuals for the old model remain.

Simon Audi wrote:

Can someone explain the Tax and Speed comments about buying the HT?

SN wrote:

So whats the price delta for that extra 10mph on a 90 rather than a 90HT?

For me the difference would be £4 - £5k, depending on boxes ticked. For that saving I’d quite happily stick the CC on at 50mph and be a one man traffic jam up & down the A9. I’d be more concerned about getting my Oztent in there, though it could ride on top.

And re resale price difference, I usually keep car for 10 years so added depreciation on a HT wouldn’t be an issue. I kept my D3 for 13 years, may she Rust in Pieces.

Quote:

LR chose not to do this with new Defender and in my opinion missed a big opportunity. I can live with that. I just won't be buying one.

DSL wrote:

@mse, SA & Gareth, many thanks, esp for the vid.

I kind of thought the Clearview camera would act as a reversing camera rather than a second one.

Quote:

Just found out that you can initiate lens cleaning by engaging reverse and pressing the button to wash the rear screen - it washes the camera lense at the same time as the window